DKC Atlas Forum

[Jomingo]

Well, I am an avid Obama supporter, but if you must know I am neither Pro-life nor Pro-choice. I want the child to have a life, but I don't want the mother to have to go through something like an unwanted child birth, especially in the case of a rapee. Though that may sound like I'm cowering out of making a decission, I do have a solution:
In my opinion, abortion should be legal, but the choice should not be up to the mother. She should apply for an abortion, and then she can make an appeal in a court of her peers. Therefore, the "baby-killing" can be decided from case-to-case, instead of just giving woman free reign to deny the unalienable right of life to a child.

Also, I don't like labels, such as Democrat or Republican, Pro-life or Pro-choice, Liberal or conservative. If you really understand what's going on you formulate your own opinions, and thus cannot be clumped into a category.


Now, about what you said. Orphans don't have it as bad off as you put it. An orphanage isn't like it's desplayed in the movies. Sure, some kids don't get adopted and have a pretty lousy childhood. But at least that have a chance at life. Orphanages provide great services by caring for children without families, and providing children to those who cannot have there own. You say that an orphan would have been better not living at all, and yet you claim to be about 'choice'. Don't you think that orphan wants to live?
Just because aborted children are too young to understand what is life, does that mean it's ok to take it away? That doesn't sound right coming out of a person about 'choice'.

"Children don't choose to do most of the things they do early in life"
What does that have to do with it? Just because they don't understand how precious life is does that mean it should be taken away?

Just so you know, I also hate Palin, and am just taking the oposite side of the argument. No matter what my personal opinion is, I like to test people on theres.

[DK4Ever]

What I meant by my stint about orphanages, is that you have to take into account what may happen, or probably will happen to the child, if it is abandoned after birth to an orphange, or otherwise, in worse cases.

and my "children don't choose what they do when they're younger" bit, simply points out that children aren't able to choose what they truly want in life at an early age, and they really aren't able to choose whether they go through life or are aborted, and even if they could, they would not truly understand the situation.

It's all up to the mother really. She decides what to do, but if people like Palin have their way, she wouldn't have this choice.

And another point, is overpopulation, which people of certain religions definitely don't understand. (Catholics being a major one, truthfully) The U.S. is the 3rd most populous (per area) country in the world, right behind China and India.

Thanks to overpopulation, more and more apartment buildings and such are being built, which has caused the extinction rate to go up from a species per year, in the time of the ancient greeks, to go up to 70 species per year in the modern day,all due t habitat destruction, and such. If this continues, humans may be the only species left on Earth, and, considering all the atrocities they've commited, they don't deserve this.

This is something else mothers who don't want their children will take into consideration. I'll elaborate more on the over-population issue if you'd like me to, and I don't want to sound like someone evil, but it's the truth.

And even if orphanages aren't as bad as they're portrayed in things like Oliver Twist, orphanages need money to keep children, and the more children they have, the worse of a state the orphanage is, depending on their influx of cash. Also, to print cash, this requires the removal of trees, and to build more orphanages, or renovate them, more trees and habitats of other species have to be ruined.

Think about it from an environmentalist standpoint for a moment, it's all one big unfortunate circle at the moment.

[Gnawzooka]

Maybe this political stuff needs a new topic...
But while we're on the topic, I'll throw in my random thought for the day (well, my friend's actually)...

KAPTAIN K.RUDD!
Most likely only Aussies will get it though...

[BlueTronic]

...For all the non-Aussies, who exactly is he?

The hurricane finally passed and the power is already back on! I get to go home tomorrow! I stayed at home for Rita and afterwards, I sweat my head off in the blistering heat for 5 days because there was no power to run the air conditioning, so we stayed at the hotel until the power came back on for Gustav. Gustav only hit as a 2, and later on dropped to a tropical storm, so my house is fine.

EDIT:

[DK4Ever]

^^ lol

And yeah, Gnawzooka, could you explain that one for us non-aussies? pretty please?

[Tiptup Jr.]

There are three groups of people in the world I detest:

1. Obama haters.
2. Petey Piranha haters.
3. Avatar haters.

McCain and most of his supporters usually fall under one of those three categories, so I tend to stay away from them. But leave Palin's daughter alone, people. Sex isn't really that bad.

[DK4Ever]

For real. But don't leave Palin herself alone, just get me a bag of rocks, and direct me to where her place is in Alaska.

And yes, Obama haters OFTEN fall under the ctegory Jomingo said I may have been a part of, until I showed otherwise. Those who go by the opinions they were taught at one point. (Like people that staunchly support McCain's "I will follow Osama Bin Laden for 100 years if necessary!" statement Sigh....

I don't hate Petey Piranha, so we can still be buds

And Avatar I'm indifferent towards, didn't manage to watch it much, but it was an amazing idea.

I myself, prefer the classic Cartoon antics of Johnny Bravo, or Courage the Cowardly Dog, and let us all remember Dexter's Lab.

[Swing King]

Invader ZIM and Avatar rock, as does Petey Pirhannah! And Zelda CD-i.

[Jomingo]

^
Relating to the abortion discussion, and specifically the last post by DK4ever that was also about the Abortion discussion:

First, the point about how the child couldn't make the decission: So your saying we should leave the decission about whether or not to kill a baby should be left up to an emotional mother who probably is too confused to think about what she's doing? That's why I said that we should leave the decission up to a committee, and they can decide case-to-case; obviously sometimes an abortion may be necessary, but we need to let the law decide that. I think a "whether or not we should kill someone" issue should indeed be left up to the courts.

The overpopulation thing has nothing to do with more babies being born(or at least not much). It's because at one time it was considered lucky if you lived to be 45, and now we keep old people who are contributing absolutely nothing to society other than fecal waste and precious resources living up into the 90's! It's not that there's an increase in birth rate, it's a decrease in death rate!

Also, all your stuff about how orphanages are bad for the environment is bologna. The same thing could be said about any establishment, and how can orphans be blamed for "printing cash kills trees"? Schools, firestations, hospitals, they all take up habitats and trees, too. That point has no validity whatsoever.

[Kiddy14]

I want the child to have a life, but I don't want the mother to have to go through something like an unwanted child birth, especially in the case of a rapee. Though that may sound like I'm cowering out of making a decission, I do have a solution:
In my opinion, abortion should be legal, but the choice should not be up to the mother. She should apply for an abortion, and then she can make an appeal in a court of her peers. Therefore, the "baby-killing" can be decided from case-to-case, instead of just giving woman free reign to deny the unalienable right of life to a child.

I don't agree... Simple, the comitee wouldn't really understand how it feels for the mother to be in that situation. Abortion is bad already, it'd be worst if it was legal (I don't know in other countries, but in Mexico some states have abortion legal but as of the first 4 weeks of pregnancy). Take in mind, if some girl really wants the baby, but her parents don't. The comitee would be with the parents and the girl would either collapse, or run away, or have a worst emotional issue of the one she already has.

So your saying we should leave the decission about whether or not to kill a baby should be left up to an emotional mother who probably is too confused to think about what she's doing?

With a psychologist, yes.

Just because aborted children are too young to understand what is life, does that mean it's ok to take it away? That doesn't sound right coming out of a person about 'choice'.
"Children don't choose to do most of the things they do early in life"
What does that have to do with it? Just because they don't understand how precious life is does that mean it should be taken away?

You're contradicting yourself; you said you were in favor of abortion and then you think is bad for the baby to not live a life.

The overpopulation thing[...]It's because at one time it was considered lucky if you lived to be 45, and now we keep old people who are contributing absolutely nothing to society other than fecal waste and precious resources living up into the 90's! It's not that there's an increase in birth rate, it's a decrease in death rate!

Umm... pardon me? The 50% of this "old useless fecal-wasting people" still has a job. I agree, the average dying age is of 70 years old; but there's no need to be that rude.

[Jomingo]

I'm talking about the old people in the retirement homes who can't bath themselves and don't even remember who there relatives are, and the ones in who are in such severe care that they live in a hospital bed and never really know what's going on. Besides, I'm not saying we should kill old people, I'm just saying that babies are not the ones increasing the population. It's the prolonged life of the elderly.

And I never contradicted myself. I never said that I was for abortion, but I am saying that it is necessary in certain cases.

Yes, a pregnant minor's parents will be the ones swaying the decission of the judge. But like I said, not just anyone should be able to go out and get an abortion, they would have to apply for it and plead their case in a courtroom or possible have a hearing in front of a committee, this way only the cases where it is necessary would the abortion be allowed. Abortion should be illegal to perform without a court authorization.

And if abortions are perfectly legal, than an emotional, desperate woman would just show up and have the thing scooped out of her without caring to see a psychologist. See, that's the thing about people, they don't see a specialist unless they think they have a problem, and I doubt a pregnant woman would go and ask a psychologist about getting an abortion.

[Swing King]

This is why, if at all possible, I try to avoid these things. Of course I can't. Being an Aussie sounds pretty good right now.

[Kiddy14]

I'm talking about the old people in the retirement homes who can't bath themselves and don't even remember who there relatives are, and the ones in who are in such severe care that they live in a hospital bed and never really know what's going on.

I see... umm... well if you see it that way then they are old-useless-people-pooping-all-the-time. You can consider them babies too, as I do. They lived a life, and they used it, they brought knowloadge to other people when they weren't like that. Besides, only about the 20% of the world's old people have alzheimer or any other severe illness.

[...]they would have to apply for it and plead their case in a courtroom or possible have a hearing in front of a committee, this way only the cases where it is necessary would the abortion be allowed. Abortion should be illegal to perform without a court authorization.

The thing is that abortion shouldn't be needed at first. When a baby is concieved, it must go... the human being must not be playing as a God, deciding whether or not a new life is concieved; that's God's (or destiny, if you're atheist) decision.

See, that's the thing about people, they don't see a specialist unless they think they have a problem, and I doubt a pregnant woman would go and ask a psychologist about getting an abortion.

Usually, when you have a "problem", you don't say: "Hey, I have a mental illness, I'll see a doctor". When you are traumatized or something simmilar, you may think:1.-it's pretty normal or 2.- you don't even realize what's going on in the real world. Of course, those are extremist cases, and being pregnant in a young age can be discussed with the family. In fact, many people do visit specialists; they get aid by their families and visit psychologists to make the best decisions.

[Gnawzooka]

...For all the non-Aussies, who exactly is he?

He's our current PM. Oh wait, you might not know what that is either...he's our Prime Minister, the american equivelant would be the President, although 'technically' our head of state is the Queen of England.

[Rodent]

Hah! Kaptain K Rudd made me lol.

[Kiddy14]

[...]although 'technically' our head of state is the Queen of England.

Wait... you're saying Australia is still a british colony? Or something like Puerto Rico and the US?

[DK4Ever]

Interestingly enough, I had no idea Australia's head of state was the Queen. I have learned something today! Hooray!

And Jomingo, please understand, as a final note on the subject, that the birth rate right now FAR outweighs the death rate. FAR outweighs it. So it's not the old people, it is the babys, really.

And and another common stupid thing I hear that's anti abortion "He/she could have grown up and discovered something GREAT in the world" whereas the alternate solution, is that they would be just another bum, living an unfortunate life. Or someone who just doesn't care enough to contribute to anything.

People assume too much from the masses

[Jomingo]

Yes, that's what I said. The birth rate does outweigh the death rate. But it's not because babies are being born more. It's because we've severely stopped the amount of death. We are so obsessed with saving peoples lives that we even care enough to stop the death penalty from killing murderers! I know it sounds harsh, but if we stopped caring about saving human lives for a while, we might slow the inevitable destruction of mother earth by our hands.

And you might say that more babies are being born, but notice how I said the birth rate hasn't increased. Yes, more babies are being born, but that's a natural effect of having more people. If there is a hundred people, and 40 babies are born, that's a 40% birth rate. If there is a thousand people, and 400 babies are born, that's still a 40% birth rate! We are having babies at the same rate, we are just stopping as much death as possible.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Jomingo, the basis of your logic is flawed. Today's medical technology has reduced the number of infant deaths so much that you can't say "It's not the babies, it's the old people." And quit being so mean to them! A person is a person, no matter what. Just because they're old doesn't mean they don't have feelings.

And on a completely unrelated note, high school sucks.

[BlueTronic]

It's school, it's supposed to suck. At least it's not as bad as middle school.

[DK4Ever]

High school does suck. However, it's my final year, so, yeah.

And I quite enjoyed Middle School (except for the constant "You have at least 4 more years of this! muhahahaha!" daunting me

[Kiddy14]

the constant "You have at least 4 more years of this!

4 years? Isn't middle school just 3? It is here
You learn new things everyday... just as how you would feel if I told you The Fairly Oddparents is broadcasted in Disney Channel and Jetix in Latin America
Anyway I start high school next Monday... I won't know anybody so I'm a tad nervious, considering I'm extremely shy in real life

[BlueTronic]

the constant "You have at least 4 more years of this!

4 years? Isn't middle school just 3? It is here

I think were referring to high school as the 4 more years...

[DK4Ever]

Yeah, Middle School is 3 here too, I was referring to High School.

Buck up Kiddy, High School's not so bad. Freshman year though, seriously, hit the books. You want to get a good start. And finish.

I made the mistake of not doing this, and failed Art second semester, and got no A's also.

(10th grade of course, I didn't get below a B, so, I showed them)

[Kiddy14]

Oh well then, High School is 2 years here (at least for me )

I know, I mainly have 10s and 9s in school (like A's and that... can somebody tell me how grades are there? I don't understand the A+ and the B- and that xD)
The thing is that I'm in a bilingual group (you may know why =P) and those groups are usually of at least 10 or 15 people, as english is not considered as cool and usefull by many students in Mexico ¬¬ so I will need to make friends. The problem is that I'm shy... I need at least 1 month to start talking to somebody who I don't know, and 3 months until I start a conversation xD
This doesn't happen when I'm with my friends, as I feel "protected", but when I'm alone, is a torture.
Not that I don't socialize, I'm considered by my friends as a really funny and trusted one, but I just don't feel ok with new people. Maybe I take too much time to explore the people's likes and dislikes so that I feel ok when starting a conversation... I dunno.
I need advice *goes to Yahoo! Answers*

[DK4Ever]

Well, the American grading system is a bit odd compared to others, but it works out ok.

First, the scale is from 0-100. A's are 100-90, B's are 89-80, C's are 79-71, a D is a 70, and F's are anything below. They = bad.

High school is only 2 years there? Man.. I've spent almost 4 slaving through mine, but it's almost over..almost over..

Anyway, I'm sure you'll meet people, just y'know, start casual conversations with people next to you in classes, especially if something you know alot about comes up.

I was as shy as you describe yourself once, but that changed for me, you ought to have the same luck

[Gnawzooka]

[...]although 'technically' our head of state is the Queen of England.

Wait... you're saying Australia is still a british colony?

Something like that. Basically, we've still got the Queen on teh back of our coin and the union jack on our flag. But no-one really adknoledges themselves as being part of the british commonwealth. There was a referrendum for independence, but we said know., I believe this is for two reasons:
1. We Australians, generally being lazy, enjoy the day off awarded on the Queen's birthday.
2. We also injoy owning everyone in the commonwealth games.

[Rodent]

I also think that our history as Australians has something to do with it. The Anzac spirit is a defining part of our culture, and it was Britain that made us go to war to establish that. That's my view on it anyway.

[Gnawzooka]

Perhaps, but that's far less humourous than my theories.

[Rodent]

True, I think that's another part of our culture.

Mind if I ask, what state are you from?

[Gnawzooka]

New South Wales, which is way better than Old North Wales.
You're in SA, which means you can get to any other state except Tasmania and the ACT without going through another.

[Rodent]

Even Queensland? Never thought of that fact... We were in NSW a few weeks ago when my brother finished his basic training at RAAF Base Wagga.

[Gnawzooka]

Yeah, the top right corner (only just) borders queensland.
I hate Wagga. I've never been, but my Geo teacher keeps going on about "How come we just call 'Wagga Wagga' 'Wagga', but we don't just call 'WoyWoy' 'Woy'?" And it's very annoying.
EDIT: I just realised, even though we're in the same country, you're probably in a different time zone. You must be 1-3 hours behind me.

[Jomingo]

Anything below a 70 is a D, DK4ever? Where I go to school you can get a 60 and still pass with a D-.

[Tiptup Jr.]

I'm moving about 750 miles away next week, so I just finished my last day at the school I've been going to for all of my life. Saying goodbye was hard, but I got a hug from the hot chick so everything was cool. I luvs her.

[Kiddy14]

A's are 100-90, B's are 89-80, C's are 79-71, a D is a 70, and F's are anything below.

Where's letter E?

[BlueTronic]

There is no letter E.

I'm not blaming you at all for not knowing that, it just sounded funny.

Anyway, the + and - are just for if your grade is on the high side or the low side. Like if you have a 98 A, that would be an A+, and if you have a 69 C, that would be a C-.

[Swing King]

At my school they use E for near failing.

[Kiddy14]

No E? Couldn't E be the F? Or the F actually means: f--- my grades?

[DK4Ever]

I always assumed F stood for Fail, since that's what it really means.

Which would explain why they chose F over E.

[Kiddy14]

I always assumed F stood for Fail, since that's what it really means.

You know... if I was Timmy Turner, you would be Crocker xD

It does make sense to it being Fail; but then what the A, the B, the C and the D mean?

[BlueTronic]

I always assumed F stood for Fail, since that's what it really means.

Which would explain why they chose F over E.

That still doesn't say why the skipped the E, they could've just as easily put E as another grade before it... Maybe the government didn't know their alphabet.

I actually forgot for a minute that E comes before F and not after it. ADD sucks.

[Rodent]

Yeah, the top right corner (only just) borders queensland.
I hate Wagga. I've never been, but my Geo teacher keeps going on about "How come we just call 'Wagga Wagga' 'Wagga', but we don't just call 'WoyWoy' 'Woy'?" And it's very annoying.
EDIT: I just realised, even though we're in the same country, you're probably in a different time zone. You must be 1-3 hours behind me.

I think its 1.5 hours. And yeah, Wagga is a craphole. Everyone looks scruffy. D:

[Swing King]

Sorry if I'm being offensive to any Aussies from Wagga, but Wagga is a funy word.





WAGGA!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlueTronic]

I read that there's a village in Austria named F***ing... I feel sorry for them.

There was big road sign in front of the village that said "F***ing" in huge letters, but it kept getting stolen by American soldiers so they bolted it to the ground, cemented it down, and chained it to the cement.

They even gave out T-Shirts that said "I ♥ F***ing in Austria".

[Gnawzooka]

Who wouldn't love f***ing in Austria?
There's a place in Tasmania called Bagdad.

[Rodent]

Tasmania doesn't count. :P

And Swing King, I'm DEEPLY offended. Go home and think about what you've done. :(

[Tiptup Jr.]

The capital of Thailand is Bangkok.

...Think about it.

[DK4Ever]

Must I think about it?

[Jomingo]

Where I go to school there is no F, only E. They mean the same thing, but I guess some schools didn't know there alphabet and used F.

Also, at my school the only way to get an A+ is to get 100%, then 99%-94% is an A, 94%-90% is an A-, etc.