DKC Atlas Forum

[Qyzbud]

Here is the same sequence with fur and beard on Cranky. The fur is just a draft. There are many glitches and bugs. I rendered it cuzz I thought it looked really weird without Cranky's beard.



Still really looking for suggestions and feed back on body movements and camera angles.
Sonosublime got anything to suggest?

Thanks.

It's good to see Cranky's beard in its full glory.

• There are a bunch of spelling/punctuation errors in the subtitles; hopefully you can spot and correct these, but if you need help, let me know.
• The dust in the close-up shots doesn't drift around at all, which takes away from the realism and atmosphere of the effect.
• Broken Record Suggestions™: DK's eyes still bulge well before his mouth opens, and I'm not seeing his hands moving in sync with his head (0:06).

I know you're looking for movement/compositional suggestions, but all that immediately comes to mind is Cranky's walk, which could use a little smoothing out.

[Phyreburnz]

Many of the animations are a little bit off. For example, when DK runs, his back legs almost look like they become unhinged at the joints of his hips. I would have to look back at all of the animations to list more. If you would like me to, I can. I'm not sure exactly where you are as far as tweaking that kind of stuff goes, so I don't want to list things that you're already going to be fixing.

[sonosublime]

Looking good man. You asked for some feedback, so:
- DK's idle movements and Cranky's walking animations look stiff and unnatural.
- Cranky is holding his cane too high. Either shorten the cane, or have him hold onto it near the middle.
- DK should not turn around until Cranky starts talking.
- When Cranky says, "All the stock were plundered overnight," he should not step forward again.
- If you're going to have breathing animations, make sure you apply them to all characters over the entire scene, or else the difference stands out.
- The dust particles should continue drifting in the air.
- When Cranky delivers the news about the missing bananas, you have DK take on a very weird expression. I would say just make him look surprised there instead.
- At this point in the script, if I remember correctly, DK also says, "Oh no, this is a disaster", or something like that.
- misspelled 'responsibilities'
- misspelled 'guard'
- When a character's dialogue is split up, you only need to state their name at the beginning, or it gets confusing.
- You don't seem to be following the timing and splits for the dialogue, and as a result, it goes too fast, not giving time for the viewer to read.
- When DK says "I don't know who did this...", have slight pause before hand. Close his mouth as well (it looks a bit silly).
- Do not have "End of Act One" in the actual movie.

As for camera angles:
- I think you jump around too much, and have too many close-ups. A few medium shots showing both characters would be good.
- When you have one camera angle sitting still for a while, a good technique is to slowly have the camera pan slightly to the left or right. This gives the illusion of a more dynamic scene.
- Also, RULE OF THIRDS!

[Cyclone]

[*]Broken Record Suggestions™: DK's eyes still bulge well before his mouth opens, and I'm not seeing his hands moving in sync with his head (0:06).[/list]

Fixed. I didn't do it until now because I didn't want re-render the fur pass.
I also added movement to the particles in the close up shots.

Next update might be awhile. Rendering all the fur takes awhile.

Thanks to everyone for the comments.

[sonosublime]

Hey Cyclone, I've just had someone help me realise that a feature length movie probably isn't the best way to go. A series would be better for several reasons, one of which is that you're seeing progress on a consistent basis, rather than, "F***, I just need to get this movie out."

What do you think? If you agree, I will go through the script, cut it up into bite-sized chunks, and make major changes to it to make it work as a series (episodes of length 5 mins max).

[Cyclone]

There are areas I would like to cut out from the script that would make things easier. However I still like the idea of having a long movie just not over 30 minutes worth. I think its around 5 min as it is right now.

I was also planning on having act one completed by Christmas or November which I hear is DKC's anniversary?

[sonosublime]

I like the idea of making a movie too, but people on the internet have no attention span, and if you want views, shorter videos would be better, and easier to make. Also, once the series is completed, you could compile all the videos together to make one long movie.

I've heard it's DK's 20th, but I'm not sure when exactly.

[Super Luigi!]

Don't worry about me, Cyclone! I'll watch it regardless of the length! Also, I shall wait for your release date, since I have patience.

[Cyclone]

I like the idea of making a movie too, but people on the internet have no attention span, and if you want views, shorter videos would be better, and easier to make. Also, once the series is completed, you could compile all the videos together to make one long movie.

I've heard it's DK's 20th, but I'm not sure when exactly.

I agree with that. How about creating 3-4 acts 3-5min each. With the first act being what I have made already?
I would like to keep the existing work I have done already of course.

@Qyzbud

Is this more to your liking? His hands move with the shaking of his head and his mouth opens in sinc with his eyes bulging. Ignor the texture pop out with the sign. I didn't feel like fixing it tonight.

[sonosublime]

Looking much better. Although I would have a bit of a pause between when DK's eyes bulge out and when he starts his dialogue.

[Cyclone]

I added the pause in the dialog that you suggested.
I also improved the resolution of the ground in the second shot and made DK make a noise of some sort when he opens his mouth in shock. I'm still trying to locate a proper shock sound. Anyone care to suggest a sound I can use? The particles also move during the close up shots now. And the skidding dust the DK makes is a bit different now.

Thanks.

[sonosublime]

I would use a DK version of the cries Diddy and Dixie make when they meet a boss in DKC2. I can't remember if there's a sound like that in the games though.

Here is the new script:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ophnbe5hj5bxz ... 0timed.pdf

I've revised it into a series. The episodes are clearly marked, but let me know if you have trouble.

I've also adjusted the timing of the dialogue throughout the script to give more time for reading.

[Qyzbud]

Looking at the latest animation, I see some improvements, but some issues that may need fixing:

• I love the way the "skidding dust" starts to look once it fades (after a second or so)... until that point, it looks a bit too dense/solid. I'm not really sure if you're aiming for an over-the-top 'comic' effect, or a subtle, realistic touch, but I personally favour the latter approach, especially since the stopping/skidding animation is a subtle one.
  
• The synchronisation you've done with the eyes/mouth is an improvement, but I think this animation should start sooner (either while DK is skidding to a stop, or immediately afterwards), as DK's reaction seems inappropriately delayed as it is.
  
• It's good to see DK's hands moving as he shakes his head, but the synchronisation of the movements seems way off; it's meant to look like DK's holding his head in his hands, right? If so, his head and hands should move in unison — as though they were grouped as a single object, basically.
  
• The dust movement in the close-ups looks good, but there seems to be a lot of noise (aliasing, perhaps?) in the ground texture near the top of the view at the 0:08 mark.

I'll give some thought to what might make for an appropriate roar/yelp/gasp of surprise as DK reacts to his missing stockpile.

[Mattrizzle]

I would use a DK version of the cries Diddy and Dixie make when they meet a boss in DKC2. I can't remember if there's a sound like that in the games though

There isn't one, at least not in the SNES version. DK's shock sound is identical to the one Diddy and Dixie use. In the intro of the SNES version of DKC1, DK uses the squealing sound from his idle animation when in shock.

[Cyclone]

Thanks again for the comments.

Here are some revised sound effects for the scene. I used DK's voice from mario cart wii which you can find on youtube.



I will work on fixing those issues you mentioned but i'm getting a bit tired of that shot.
I don't think there is a way to get rid of the aliasing in the second shot.

[Qyzbud]

I think that fits pretty well.

With regards to giving the dialogue a bit of character; I wonder if there's software out there that could import a series of samples (such as these ones available on YouTube), and sequence them randomly (or even semi-intelligently — short samples for short words, same sample used for each instance of word, etc...) to somewhat match up with a written script.

Basically I'm just picturing a (semi-)random string of simian sounds to accompany the text — somewhat like how the voices in Banjo-Kazooie were done, but with higher quality and a lot more variation, of course. This could all be done manually, but it might be a little tedious...

[sonosublime]

Hmm, I'm not too sure about the new sound. I think the old one sounds a lot less silly.

[Cyclone]

^
well feel free to help with finding a good sound.
Check out this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2KkkLxdifw
maybe there is a better one.

[sonosublime]

I had a listen, but those sounds are kind of silly. I suggest just using the original sound you had, or else maybe one from DKCR/DKCTF

[Cyclone]

Spoiler!

Looking at the latest animation, I see some improvements, but some issues that may need fixing:

• I love the way the "skidding dust" starts to look once it fades (after a second or so)... until that point, it looks a bit too dense/solid. I'm not really sure if you're aiming for an over-the-top 'comic' effect, or a subtle, realistic touch, but I personally favour the latter approach, especially since the stopping/skidding animation is a subtle one.
  
• The synchronisation you've done with the eyes/mouth is an improvement, but I think this animation should start sooner (either while DK is skidding to a stop, or immediately afterwards), as DK's reaction seems inappropriately delayed as it is.
  
• It's good to see DK's hands moving as he shakes his head, but the synchronisation of the movements seems way off; it's meant to look like DK's holding his head in his hands, right? If so, his head and hands should move in unison — as though they were grouped as a single object, basically.
  
• The dust movement in the close-ups looks good, but there seems to be a lot of noise (aliasing, perhaps?) in the ground texture near the top of the view at the 0:08 mark.

I'll give some thought to what might make for an appropriate roar/yelp/gasp of surprise as DK reacts to his missing stockpile.

I made the changes you suggested and also changed the sound DK makes and increased the contrast of the scene
Ignore the glitches/pop in of the fur. I didn't render those parts with full hair count to save 6hours of rendering.



The shot looks to me as practicaly finished/polished. The only thing really is modeling adjustments of the cave but that can wait.

What do you guys think?

[Qyzbud]

I've only just noticed that you've entirely done away with the dynamic light beams; this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it was a little distracting before, but if you're not opposed to the idea, perhaps you could reintroduce the beams in a more subtle way?

[Cyclone]

What about the rest of the changes I made. Do your eyes say they are they good now?

[Qyzbud]

The changes you've made are good; for whatever reason, it's things I should have noticed a while ago that I'm suddenly paying attention to.

DK's animation as he enters doesn't look quite 'hurried' enough; he's meant to be in a rush, but his movements look a bit too casual and, well... kind of robotic. Look at his torso as he enters the cave — it doesn't bob up and down, or tilt at all with his movements, which makes it feel less believable than it should. The limbs are animated fairly well, which almost makes up for the lack of torso animation, but some attention to the torso could be a big improvement.

Also, I honestly don't think the squeaky yelp does the scene justice, but that's something that can be changed any time. *Shrug*

[Cyclone]

Too bad you didn't mention that before I rendered. Oh well. Thanks though.

I did google searches and I can't find a good DK shock/surprised sound. The one in the previous post was from DKC1.
Couldn't find one for the newer games.

[Cyclone]

I animated his hips but now you can't really tell cuzz he runs in faster now. I also added the first couple of shots to the render so you/I can get a sense how things flow. The sound in hoard is now a roar and yes its out of sync. Preview renders go so slow in my After effects.



What do you guys think?
I'm still stuck on the sound dk makes when he see the hoard.
Much appreciated. Thanks!

[sonosublime]

How come this topic has been moved again? I'm confused

Anyway, I don't think the new sound really fits either. I think the best one would be when DK takes a hit from an enemy in the Retro games. But eh, it's a minor detail.

Other than that, the scene is looking good. That should nearly wrap up the first couple of episodes! Once the issues Qyzbud and I pointed out in the checklist have been ironed out, I can add the subtitles and edited music.

[brentalfloss]

Hey Cyclone!
This is Brent Black ("brentalfloss"). I'd like to pay you to feature a few of these shots in an upcoming Donkey Kong Country music video I'm working on. I've got about 250,000 YouTube subscribers, so it could really get a lot more people interested in your project (I'm willing to plug your work in a very deliberate and "go check out this guy right now!" kind of way, haha).

Sorry to seem like a stalker, but I did find your website and send you an email there, as well as a YouTube message. The music video will release Thursday, so that's why I ended up just posting this as a forum reply. I'm hoping to get a response as soon as possible

I don't really want to post my email address here, but feel free to reply here or via your website email address inbox.

Thanks!

-Bb

[Tonberry2000]

Wow, that's a pretty big deal. I hope Cyclone sees this.
Brentalfloss ain't no joke.

[sonosublime]

No kidding. That's an awesome opportunity. Good for you, Cyclone.

[Cyclone]

brentalfloss I sent you an email.

[brentalfloss]

Woo-hoo!

Bb

[Qyzbud]

Welcome to the Atlas, brentalfloss. I'm not familiar with your YouTube channel (I'll rectify that!), but it sounds like you're about to release something we'll all enjoy!

Feel free to start a topic in the DKC Projects/Fanworks section here if and when you'd like to share this music video.

I animated his hips but now you can't really tell cuzz he runs in faster now. I also added the first couple of shots to the render so you/I can get a sense how things flow. The sound in hoard is now a roar and yes its out of sync. Preview renders go so slow in my After effects.

Spoiler!

What do you guys think?
I'm still stuck on the sound dk makes when he see the hoard.
Much appreciated. Thanks!

As I mentioned in chat, DK's pace entering the cave looks better now, and although it's hard to tell what animation you've added to his hips, the overall effect is certainly improved.

Sono's suggestion of using DK's yelp of defeat from the Retro games is a good one; let me know if you need help finding/capturing it. The last one we tried out didn't really work due to the unavoidable cutscene music, but I think this one would be easier to capture cleanly; even if it's obscured in Tropical Freeze (I haven't checked yet), the relevant sample ought to be directly extractable from Returns, what with Wii hacking/emulation being as established as it is.

Oh and Sono; the topic moved because I set it as a sticky.

[Cyclone]

Here is the last version I will try. I think it works better.

[Cyclone]

Added a lot more foliage to this one shot.

Anything you guys think need changing? I think i plan on changing the lighting a bit and animate the foliage.

[Qyzbud]

As I mentioned in chat, I think the added foliage is a big plus for this scene. Apart from the lighting and animation aspects that you've already mentioned, I think it's all looking quite lovely.

The video seems to be considerably more compressed than your previous uploads, so it's hard to critique the visual quality of everything while it's in motion; thankfully the render you've provided is very crisp and clear, so I can use that for a quality reference. One thing that comes to mind on this front is that I think the ground texture ought to be higher resolution.

It would also be nice to see some of those red leaves in this shot, rather than just the green and brown ones; I recall mentioning the red leaves a while back, and you added a few to a subsequent render.

[Tonberry2000]

Wow, that video came together very quickly.

[Cyclone]

Here is an attempt on Dawn/morning lighting with animated foliage.

I don't know why it looks compressed. On my computer it looks perfect.


Edit: here is a quicktime version in much better quality. Please view this until I find a workaround to the you tube quality.

http://www.inspiredvisuals.com/DK/DKEnteringHoard%28from_outside_Aimated_Foliage%29%28August17%29.mov

Edit2: I added a link to another streaming source in the youtube description. Much better streaming quality.

[Cyclone]

Changed the lighting and added fur to the previous shot(be sure to check out the daily motion link for better quality). The second video below I just adjusted the lighting.





Feedback welcomed. Thanks

[Cyclone]

Spoiler!

Added some butterflies in post and some dust.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x245o5 ... videogames



I need feedback on the lighting of the scene as soon as possible so I can start on the other shots that are part of this sequence.

sonosublime anyone?

Thanks in advance.

[sonosublime]

Hmm, the latest version is way too green. And the previous version is a little too orange, but it looked better in my opinion. If you tone down the orange light a bit, it would look good.

[Cyclone]

As Qyzbud suggested I redid the lighting from scratch. I think it looks better. More of a dense jungle feel with dappled morning light. I have two renders one with light rays the other without. Which do you guys prefer?

Without(very subtle)

Spoiler!

Thank you.

[sonosublime]

The first pic looks great!

[Qyzbud]

Sweet holy Moses... I love it!

Pardon the biblical babbling, but this is a phenomenal improvement — at least in my eyes. The softer lighting, shadows and mist all make for a very natural and harmonious look, which really appeals to me; I can barely wait to see how it looks with DK running through it.

I'm a little unsure of the high contrast texture/bump mapping on the cave entrance, though; it kind of stands out amongst the smoother models and textures.

Also, it would really be nice to see those red leaves in the shot; I think they would help balance the colours of the scene.

Superb work, Cyclone... I think a lighting overhaul was the right move.

Oh, and I agree with Sono that the first pic looks a touch nicer.

[MatiZ]

Oooh much better with fog and shadows! Keep up the good work!

[Super Luigi!]

I agree with Qyzbud, since he pretty much summed up what I about to say. Great work, Cyclone! It really looks like a jungle now, and not some terrible Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts custom Counter Strike map!

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the comments.

Did an overnight render of the animation.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24c2n ... videogames

Edit: Now on youtube


Can't believe I didn't place the trail of bananas in the scene before.

[Cyclone]

Here is the compilation of the current scene I'm working on with changed lighting and sound effects/music.
I will post on you tube later but here it is in high quality.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24nph ... videogames

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

[Qyzbud]

This update is looking pretty nice. We addressed most of my thoughts in chat (or previous posts in this topic), but I'll note them here for reference, etc.

Mentioned

• DK's rolling pose as he exits his treehouse looks awkward.
• DK's movement speed is quite slow as he "runs" toward his banana cave.
• The outcrop DK uses to get up to his treehouse doesn't look quite right to me; tweaking the texture contrast could help, but I think some reshaping and other detailing might be needed to make it fit into the scene better.
• The red leaves are either nonexistent, or they just look brown to me...
• The ferns would look better with a little bit of texture; they look a bit plain/plasticky, and even kind of cel shaded at one point, when the camera is really close up
• Obviously, the birds need work, but I know you're on the case.

Unmentioned

• The top edge of the "jungle" backdrop image is visible just above the treetops as the camera pans down in the first clip.
• In the worms-eye shot, the sky looks extremely deep blue — perhaps a lighter blue would look better?
• The beams of light look way too prominent and a little out of place in the shot with the birds scattering; I would suggest setting them to around half of their current opacity, or something like that.
• Are you planning to have DK's initials on his tie? I know his '94 vintage graphics didn't include it, but I think you'd get away with featuring it — especially since you've upgraded other visual aspects like his fur, etc. Just a thought.
• There's a colour test frame at the 17s mark.

Here are some examples that might help as reference for a fern texture:

Spoiler!

They aren't the highest resolution photos you could ask for, but hopefully the details they show could give you some ideas. Basically, I just think you need to work on breaking up the single-colour, textureless look of the ferns.

[Cyclone]

Thanks for taking the time to critique the the project.

Here is a render with added textures to the ferns. They are a little darker now. should I increase the greenness of the ferns and make them brighter?

Also here is the scared birds shot. Too many birds, wrong colour, too fast?



And sonosublime should the banana trail be shown further in the script? Or as soon as he enters the cave?

Thanks guys.

[Qyzbud]

Personally, I think the fern texture helps. It mightn't be a big transformation, but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I can't help but think a little bit of bump mapping could make the shapes it's composed of look a bit more organic, but if you wish to leave it as it is and move on, I can accept that.

I think I agree with most of your own recent bird critiques; too many, too brown... too fast? I'm not sure, but I think they might be moving a bit fast — especially considering that they are flying upwards, and not flapping. Personally, I would recommend a few Squawks-esque bright colours for the birds; not that they have to look like Squawks, exactly, but having vivid colour would be nice, I think.