DKC Atlas Forum

[Tiptup Jr.]

...I just realized that I have never played an online match in this game. Weird.

But even though I said that stuff up there, I still think Dixie and K. Rool should've been in Brawl. It's just... you know.

[CaptainEddie]

Hah, I should have used Link. That would have gone a lot faster.

And yes, Dixie and K. Rool would have been nice.

[CM August]

But even though I said that stuff up there,

Oh, you mean this?

Gee, sorry for having a positive outlook on life for a second. I guess I'm just tired of Brawl conversations like "Come on guys, the so and so franchise did pretty well with such and such", and then someone else says "SAKUARI DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THAT FRANCHISE THAT'S WHY WE ONLY GOT TWO CHARACTARZ HAHAHA!", and then the other guy bursts into tears at his computer when he realizes his life is a jumbled mess. Because it is.

Because it isn't mindlessly offensive or anything. Nobody mocked you for liking Brawl for what it is. There simply may be, just may be, a difference of opinion regarding a minor point in an overall great game.

[Tiptup Jr.]

...Thanks. I think I just needed to hear that someone else at least thought Brawl was fun. You have no idea what it's like living with my "every game you like sucks" little brother.

[BlueTronic]

I feel your pain.

[Jomingo]

Ah kids, can't live with them, can only get away with beating them with Fishing Rod twice.

[Tiptup Jr.]

I was looking at these today...

And in the fighters section there are codes for zakoball, zakoboy, zakochild and zakogirl. Does anyone know who these are? And what the heck is a "zako", anyway?

[Simion32]

Zako is most likely a term for the alloy team fighters. The SSBM song for when you fight the Wire Frames was named "ZAKO_TEAM.HSF", if I remember correctly.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Yeah, that's probably true. Nevermind.

But God... Dixie could have been in Brawl.

[Diddy_Gal]

Your right! Maybe becuase that the animators didn't have enough time to make her or the sound crew ran out of monkey sounds. (High-pitched version)

[Jomingo]

Sakurai revealed recently that there were many fighters and features that were cut because of time constraints. That's why Dixie isn't in.

[gamer_boy997]

Wow, Tiptup. Intresting example. Personally, I'd like Dixie in there, but I'm happy with Diddy.

This post goes to everyone who is upset that Dixie wasn't in brawl. I heard that people hacked to get characters that the designers "planed" to put in the game, but they never made it. Guess what? Dixie was one of them. There was also toon Zelda and Mewtwo, in case anyone cares. That's all I remember, but there was many more.

[Jomingo]

Yes, I think that most of us know this, and I think that's what Tiptup JR. was refering to when he said, "But God, Dixie could have been in Brawl."

The characters I remember were:
Dixie
Mewtwo
Toon Zelda
Toon Somebody else
Plusle and Minun
Pichu
Dr. Mario
Roy

I think that was it. Anyway, they hacked the game and found these characters names in the games memory, but the character did not actually exist within the game, meaning they never really got past the planning stage.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Actually, Pichu was never found in Brawl's coding, and the other Toon character was Toon Shiek.

So... do you think there's enough in the game for them to actually be playable? I mean, through intense hacking, almost anything's possible.

[Jomingo]

Oh, I thought that Pichu was a mistake. Anyway, as I said before, the characters did not and do not exist withing the game. Only the characters names are in the memory, as they were planned to be in. But they must have decided early on not to include them, and that's why they never created the characters for use in the game. Nothing else exists of them, none of there moves, there models, only there names are saved to a file.

[gamer_boy997]

Yes, I think that most of us know this

Sorry, I didn't know over half the people here know that, it would be great if someone posted it earlier (unless someone did, and I wasn't paying attention).

[Jomingo]

No, that's fine. I'm glad you brought it to the table. I don't think anyone has posted it, I was just saying that alot of us were paying very close attention to all the Brawl news that came about before it's release. And seeing as no one has posted it you had no way of knowing that we already knew it.

[DonkeyKong]

Marth and DiddyKong, and Wolf are my best characters. I like Final Destination cause theres no hazards and Luigis mansion because its plays Tetris type A. I didnt like Rumble Falls though because it was too much like Icicle Mountain from Melee.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Diddy, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, and R.O.B are my best characters.

And Zero Suit Samus, 'cuz, you know.

[DK4Ever]

I would largely prefer K. Rool over Dixie. Don't flame me! This game needs more bad guys.

I whole-heartedly agree.

Seriously, I don't want to rant about why K. Rool should have been in over alot of the characters, but I may have to.

His moveset potential was amazing, and they wasted it all. (By of course not using it)

His blunderbuss, his crown, his heli-pack from DKC3, his boxing gloves...sigh...

So much potential for such a great character....

[Jomingo]

Yeah, K. Rool could've been way more unique then Dixie. He could've had a great moveset.

[Rodent]

K Rool would prwn Dixie. More variety from the series.

[BlueTronic]

K.Rool would be way better than Dixie in Brawl, but I also think Nintendo should work Zinger (Or at least Kackle or Kloak) into the next Smash Bros.

[Jomingo]

Are you joking? But then again you also suggested that Squitter be playable...

[Rodent]

Maybe as assist trophies or enemies, yeah...

[Tiptup Jr.]

YES! YESSSSS!

I lol'd.

[DonkeyKong]

I agree. If they got Bowser,Ganondorf, and Wolf. Why not the DonkeyKong villain K.Rool. His color changes could be his different outfits. He would have an interesting moveset. Im guessing a slow/power type since hes pretty big. Kackle in super smash bros? how would you touch him? A zinger? can you kill it without items?

[Gnawzooka]

I think it would be better to have Kaptain K.Rool, since he's way cooler. But yeah, for Mario they have Bowser, for Link they have Ganondorf, for Fox they have Wolf (imaginitive names there ) and for Samus they have two Ridley bosses and a Metroid assist trophy (but no-one playable). So, they should have K.Rool in some form or another.

[Jomingo]

Yeah, K. Rool is as recognisable as Wolf to most people, and he's way more original.

[Gnawzooka]

I'd never even heard of Wolf before playing brawl actually. But then, I haven't owned any Nintendo consoles since I was about 9 or 10, and I'm 15 now.

[Sean]

The next DK character is either going to be K. Rool or Dixie. Undeniably. Which one I'd prefer first changes with every passing day, but eventually we're gonna get both anyway, assuming the series goes on long enough. You should all be very lucky K. Rool wasn't made a boss or an Assist Trophy, because that would have effectively ruled him out of a playable role permanently. (That's right, assist trophies are not the shortlist for the next game! Shock and horror.)

[Tiptup Jr.]

You should all be very lucky K. Rool wasn't made a boss or an Assist Trophy, because that would have effectively ruled him out of a playable role permanently.

With the exception of Ridley, maybe. Twice.

I just can't believe Dixie didn't made the cut. Does that bug anyone else? Like, she would have been better than 60% of the roster anyway, and she's someone people have actually heard of. Do you think the average consumer buys a game for characters like Pit or Wolf? Pft.

And you know how the game doesn't work on older Wii models with dirty laser slots? Yeah, that's me. And I can't send it in to get fixed because I'll end up paying ninety dollars for other damages. (It fell off a bookshelf three times, there's a giant crack in it, the Gamecube covers are gone, and the Power and Reset buttons are stuck in.)

[Jomingo]

Don't play with your Wii so hard.

[CaptainEddie]

All you gotta do is tell them what's wrong with it and they will fix only that. Mine broke twice due to my bro and I ot it fixed.

[Gnawzooka]

By the way, are there any DK stages that DON'T take place in the jungle? It's really annoying that as far as I can see, they didn't make any levels for any of the other places in the DK games.

[Jomingo]

There's the Waterfall from Jungle Beat, or the Building from DK Arcade.

And Jungle Japes is back.

[Sean]

Yay quoting.

With the exception of Ridley, maybe. Twice.

Ridley's gone. He is never, ever being playable. If they felt they had any shot of doing so, they wouldn't have made him a boss. Don't expect him, don't hope for him, don't get pissed when they don't include him in the next one, because he's been utterly ruled out. Same goes for every boss and every AT.

I just can't believe Dixie didn't made the cut. Does that bug anyone else? Like, she would have been better than 60% of the roster anyway, and she's someone people have actually heard of. Do you think the average consumer buys a game for characters like Pit or Wolf? Pft.

My pet theory - and Dasher Misire from DKU tells me that Famitsu confirmed this - is that she was supposed to be part of a tag-team with Diddy, since that was what a lot of people wanted early on and what Sakurai himself said interested him. So when they decided to do Diddy on his own, they put their Nana/Sheik style Dixie away since she wouldn't work anymore. I don't consider her ruled out as a result of this; like I said, it's gonna come down to either her or K. Rool. (Probably K. Rool since they seem to be terrified of new female characters...)

And do you think the average consumer buys this game for anyone other than Mario or Pikachu? Hah.

Actually, as far as DK's concerned, literally nothing about this game bugs me. (Well, the trophy gaffes are annoying, mostly because I have to listen to people parrot them from now on.) I think we did pretty damn good, all things considered. You complain that we didn't get three or four DK characters in one pop. I, meanwhile, was figuring for over a year that even getting Diddy would be a miracle, and I'm not about to start complaining that they didn't do more than what I asked for. I wanted Diddy, I got Diddy, whoo-ha. Hell, the stages don't even bug me, since we did get Jungle Japes back. At worst, we have the amusing contradiction that Diddy is the new playable character and both new stages are based on games he wasn't in. As time goes on I find that more funny than frustrating.

Now, if we want to start talking F-Zero, well, you better let me brush up on this place's profanity rules first.

[Jomingo]

All we ask is that the profanity is kept to a mininum, and you don't direct any of it at our members. For example, "F*** that", is OK, but "F*** you", is not.
As long as you aren't disrespecting fellow members, it's pretty much OK.


About Brawl, yeah I heard about Diddy and Dixie being partners. I'm glad they didn't include them as partners though, as that would lesser Diddy's presence. Though, if they did have them as partners it would be a great DKC2 reference. Since Diddy is on his own that just increases the possibility for both of them to be seperately playable in a future installment, though I agree that we'll see K. Rool first.

I really don't see your logic about ATs and Bosses being ruled out though. I mean, other than the thought that them being bosses or ATs is a cheap way to make a franchise's fans not complain, I don't see why that would rule them out though.

[Sean]

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol5_page2.jsp

Iwata
Take Mr. Resetti from Animal Crossing or the dog from Nintendogs. How did you go about choosing these characters?

Sakurai
The most important thing was simply whether or not it would make players happy. I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title. Heading the list of these characters are the ones from the games we just mentioned, Nintendogs and Animal Crossing. Because these are games played by lots of people, I knew players would be happy to see them make an appearance. This is why I wanted to find a way to put them in the game and why they became Assist Trophies.

Characters like the above that do not seem plausible for them to fight will not appear. (But maybe as an item?)

The whole point of Assist Trophies was to be a place to put popular characters that Sakurai et al didn't think could work as playable characters. Hell, this goes all the way back to the first Assist Trophy update: "Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters." He does not mean that as "we wanted these guys playable but we ran out of time or space". If a character becomes an Assist Trophy, that means they are ruled out. Period end. Samurai Goroh is never happening. Lyn is never happening. Saki is never happening. Ray Mk II is never happening. Etc. etc. Now he's never said that bosses operate along the same lines, but if you ever do see Ridley or Pokey or Rayquaza playable I will gladly eat one of my many hats. It's the same principle, and it's one of the big reasons why I refuse to speculate about the next game (beyond my held belief that we're going to be a downsizing of the cast, not an increase).

And to whoever decides to be smart and brings up Charizard going from Pokéball to playable: please, find me the interview that flat-out stated that the Pokémon for that item were chosen because they felt they wouldn't work as playable characters. I'll wait.

[Jomingo]

OK, so the original point was for characters that wouldn't fit as fighters. That doesn't necessarily mean all the characters are ruled out, and they never explicitly said that it wasn't because they ran out of space.

I see what you're saying. I just think that they aren't permanently ruled out. We will see who will be eating your hat in 5 years or so.

[Sean]

If only it was just five years...

And the fact that Sakurai nor anyone else on the project ever said after the fact that they had expanded the AT concept (remember, that interview I linked you to was done after the game was out, at least in Japan), combined with everything else I know about the game, tells me that their motive never changed beyond the initial one. There is hope and then there is denial, and I will have no part of the latter.

[Jomingo]

Well, it was two years between the original and Melee, and then 7 years between Melee and Brawl. So I don't think 5 years is too far off. It'll probably be within a year of the next system's launch. And I bet the next system will launch between 2011 and 2013. So probably 4-6 years from now we'll be playing the next one.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Sean, I'd bring up how you made similar "convincing arguments" as to why Diddy didn't have a bat-shiot chance of being in a Smash Bros. game, and when he was finally revealed you didn't show up on the DKU and left us to assume that you had died of shock. But I don't want to start anything.

Ridley might be playable in future installments of Smash, but 2008 just wasn't his time.

[Jomingo]

Which is exactly why he said he wasn't gonna complain about DK's representation anymore....

[Sean]

Diddy didn't show up in a previous game in a role that the developer specifically said was for characters that he didn't think would work as playables.

Ridley and Goroh and all the other people may have a shot... if Sakurai isn't the developer of the next game.

EDIT: And I should point out that even now I still consider Diddy getting into Brawl a miracle. My arguments for why I felt he wasn't getting in (ok, the gibbon sticker thing was a little dumb, but everything else) was stuff that I felt was relevant. Diddy got in despite all of that, as far as I'm concerned. But I really have no desire to talk about that stuff anymore, otherwise I'd just crawl back to DKU (hah).

[DK4Ever]

Diddy is the star of his own series, which puts him much higher on the logical priority list than:

Wolf, Lucario (I'm sorry, but Mewtwo was my homeboi, not that I HATE Lucario), Jiggs (**** Jiggs...), Falco, (Falco is Fox's second banana, Diddy is DK's buddy/partner, Diddy > Falco in this respect), Ice Climbers (Just because, I mean really, why them? out of any retro character? they only had one game if memory serves, and did anyone really enjoy it?) And a load of others. Including R.O.B., despite how amazing he is. And really, Sonic. I never was much of a Sonic fan, although I loved SA2B, but I can stand Snake, because, well, he's Snake, and I loved his games, but hey, that's my opinion.

I fail to see how one could even imagine Diddy didn't have a ghost of a chance in Brawl (besides, he and Wario were greatly considered for Melee, so.......)

Don't go raggin' on the Diddy like that, man.

My only quarrel with Brawl (other than the slower-than-Melee-ness, the lack of DK character representation, lack of Banjo-ness (no chance, but still, Banjo should have been in Melee), the fact that I can't wavedash anymore, seriously, that was a cool part of Melee, and the lack of Fountain of Dreams, is the lack of Zingers in the game, at ALL!

[Gnawzooka]

Yeah, they should have had some DK enemies in the subspace emmesary.
On Ridley, wouldn't he be a bit too big to be a playable character? In fact, all the bosses are likewise. It's a big jump from say, Bowser to Ridley. I've never actually played a Metroid game though... on the other hand, they definitely should get someone else from the Metroid series (as a playable character). Samus must be feeling pretty lonely... My friend thinks they should have...uh, I can't remmeber the name, but when he's a ball he can kill people by making a triangle around them.
Now, Snake... I really don't think Snake should be in it. Not because he's a third party character, and not because I don't like his games, but because he just doesn't seem to fit in. He just doesn't seem quite right in a game with all those Nintendo characters. Sonic fits; he's got the right kinda cartoony feel about him... it's a little hard to explain, but I think you get the idea.
Now, I actually kinda like the idea of Diddy and Dixie as a team. I reckon it's be fun throwing the other kong at enemy players, and It'd be great if you could switch between the two. Now that would be just like DKC2. Although we can certainly rule out that as ever happening, I doubt they'd change Diddy from being by himself to a being a team character.

All we ask is that the profanity is kept to a mininum, and you don't direct any of it at our members. For example, "F*** that", is OK, but "F*** you", is not.
As long as you aren't disrespecting fellow members, it's pretty much OK.

F*** YEAH!
...
Sorry, couldn't resist, won't happen again.

[Jomingo]

Yeah, Snake made no sense. I probably wouldn't have minded, but now people will be suggesting the stupidest characters that make absolutely no sense, and they can use the excuse, "If Snake can why not ____".

Sonic made sense. Snake doesn't.

I still want Pacman above any other character though, he makes a lot of sense....

[Sean]

Snake is in because his creator asked for him to be in. Simple.

[DK4Ever]

Sorry for the elbumpo, but I recieved a PS3 for mah birthday, along with MGS4.

Since Kojima + Sakurai are like best buds, I'd assume in SSB4 (Since Sakurai has already said if Nintendo asks him to make the next one, he'll do it) that they would add Old Snake as an up-to-date rep?

Would they change his character at all, or utilize the octo-camo? Thoughts?