DKC Atlas Forum

[Katastrophe Kong]

Hopefully we can talk some sense into these hoarders. I read that "bit-rotting" article and it kinda gave me the Jibblies. I guess that's how you can tell when you're seriously dedicated to video games.

[Markster]

For people who don't have a NintendoAge account, here are the prototype shots.

Spoiler!

ProtoBoard Front.PNG (282.01 KiB) Viewed 122543 times

ProtoBoard Back.PNG (273.95 KiB) Viewed 122543 times

Proto CorruptedMenu.PNG (225.2 KiB) Viewed 122543 times

Proto Error.PNG (233.88 KiB) Viewed 122543 times

[Katastrophe Kong]

Oh no...

They're gonna break it.

[Markster]

Those pics where from the seller, now Zak's friend got the prototype board.

We're doomed! They're probably gonna break it.

[Gaz]

O_O. WHy would they break it?

[Markster]

Prototype boards are very fragile and the board is not protected, If they don't take care of the board, it will break or bitrot.

[Gaz]

I don't want to make matters worse, but Zak is completely ignoring me.

[Markster]

Well that sucks.

[Gaz]

Why is he ignoring me? I warned him about bitrot and everything.

[Markster]

I don't know why he's ignoring you, he needs to dump it so if it does bitrot, he won't lose the actual game.

[Blaziken257]

While it's nice that there's a prototype (How do people find these things? Do people just leave them in the middle of the desert or something?), I doubt it will be publicly released. I think that making it publicly available severely decreases the value of it...

Also, as mentioned in this thread, Kiddy's idle animation is different from the final game, but it's the same as in DKL3: he moves his hand back and forth, instead of looking confused and staring into space. This, along with the unused Kopter death sprite that was later used in DKL3, suggests that DKL3 was started before DKC3 was finished.

[Gaz]

Update: zak is trying to register his account here and get moderator approval. He's not all that bad after all. Qyzbud, could you please activate his account? Also, he wants to sell a prototype (I don't know what). I presume Mattrizzle or badinsults could get it, but who knows? I guess I misjudge collectors...

[zak]

Hi chaps

Zak here. I initiated the sale of the DKC3 proto last month. I showed the buyer this thread and he says that he wants to sell his board to fund something else. Not sure if anyone is interested or not, but he will sell this to another collector if he doesn't get any bites here.

Cheers,

Zak.

[zak]

Prototype boards are very fragile and the board is not protected, If they don't take care of the board, it will break or bitrot.

Believe me...the guy who owns it knows how to look after it, it is stored in an anti static bag at all times.

[zak]

Why is he ignoring me? I warned him about bitrot and everything.

I wasn't intentionally trying to ignore you, I just didn't have anything useful to contribute to our discussion on NA. I have contacted you because the new owner wants to sell the proto DKC3 now.

[Gaz]

Sorry zak... I was misguided. Can you please leak a ROM of the prototype? The public would love it (including the entire DKC Atlas).

[zak]

Sorry zak... I was misguided. Can you please leak a ROM of the prototype? The public would love it (including the entire DKC Atlas).

Unfortunately I cannot leak a ROM without buying the actual proto myself. I am simply a middleman here.

[Gaz]

Well, I do recommend your friend gives it to badinsults. He'll handle it in good shape.

[badinsults]

I am interested in the prototype. How much did you have in mind? I might have a buyer for it.

[zak]

Guys, I have to make it clear that this will not be a cheap sale. We are talking thousands here, not hundreds. If you want me to get you in contact with the seller, please PM me your email address and I will get you in touch with him.

[Gaz]

badinsults was probably expecting a thousand (also me).

[badinsults]

Guys, I have to make it clear that this will not be a cheap sale. We are talking thousands here, not hundreds. If you want me to get you in contact with the seller, please PM me your email address and I will get you in touch with him.

Haha, good luck with that. The prototype is maybe worth $300 at most. I'd lean towards $250. Even some unreleased games prototypes have sold for less than that. I think your friend overestimates how much SNES prototypes usually sell for. A prototype of Super Mario Kart recently sold for about $360, and I would say that is about the upper range in price for a SNES prototype. If your friend wants to sell this prototype, he is going to have to come down from that unrealistically high price. There's been plenty of SNES prototype on sale during the past 6 months, and few went for more than $100. If this guy wants a much higher price, he is going to have to prove that this prototype is in a very early state, and actually worth the money.

[Nintendo Player]

Hi guys, Mike from Nintendo Player here. I wrote the aforementioned article on bitrot.

Evan (badinsults) told me about this thread. As much as I love the Donkey Kong Country series, I would not be able to spend thousands on this prototype. I did contact the seller to ask if he would be interested in doing a cash/trade deal since I have other prototypes that I'd be willing to part with in order to secure DKC3.

The owner is a major Nintendo prototype collector who does privately dump his games, so there's no need to worry about the data being lost.

At the very least, if we can't come to an agreement, I did purchase a Donkey Kong Land III Game Boy prototype with confirmed differences just last week. When I have some more time, I will be writing an article on my website documenting any changes that I find. The back-up file will also be made available for fans to play.

[Qyzbud]

Hey Mike, welcome (again) to the Atlas.

I would have to agree with you guys that the idea of paying thousands for a proto cart is quite ludicrous... you would have to be a pretty serious fan/collector (with more dollars than sense) to even consider such a purchase. A great piece of gaming history, perhaps, but yeah... Best of luck with the acquisition, anyhow — hopefully you can interest him in a trade. At the very least, it's good to hear that the current owner knows what he's doing, and creates backups.

I did purchase a Donkey Kong Land III Game Boy prototype with confirmed differences just last week. When I have some more time, I will be writing an article on my website documenting any changes that I find. The back-up file will also be made available for fans to play.

That's the spirit! Very nice to hear that you're a man of the people.

I look forward to reading your article(s).

[Gaz]

Can I please marry you if Blaziken257 doesn't beat me to it Mike? You're so awesome for doing this! Blaziken257 and I would love a DKL3 prototype. GREAT JOB!

[Geno]

I did purchase a Donkey Kong Land III Game Boy prototype with confirmed differences just last week. When I have some more time, I will be writing an article on my website documenting any changes that I find. The back-up file will also be made available for fans to play.

Donkey Kong Land III Game Boy prototype with confirmed differences

Donkey Kong Land III Game Boy prototype with confirmed differences

YEEESSSS! I CAN'T WAIT! DKLIII IS MY FAVOURITE DKL GAME! PROTOTYPE! WOO!

And, would it be worth pointing out DKC3 is my favourite DKC game?
I am so happy.
Can't wait for the ROM dump(s)!

Oh, and just out of curiosity, where's your website?

[Gaz]

Nintendo Player's? It contains (BETA) ROMs, so I can't post a link to it. Type in Nitnendo player in Google Search and you should find it.

[Simion32]

Yeah, everyone just use Google. I'm not going to squash this valuable prototype discussion.

And yeah I doubt that the proto would have been worth more than 1K.

[Nintendo Player]

Thank you for the warm welcome and the marriage proposal!

I should mention that I'm super busy working on an unrelated Super Famicom prototype for Halloween right now, so the Donkey Kong Land III article won't be up on Nintendo Player until sometime in November. If I am not allowed to post a direct link to the article, then I will at least tell you when the page is ready so you can start your Googling.

And I have not yet heard back from the Donkey Kong Country 3 seller in regards to my counteroffer.

[Blaziken257]

Wow.

THIS. IS. AWESOME.

DKL3 is, in fact, the first Donkey Kong game that I've ever played (yes, seriously!), so hearing about a prototype is significant to me. And it was totally unexpected, too. I'm curious to see if there were any planned things that were cut out. Judging from this ever-growing page, I wouldn't be surprised if there was. Is there any level that uses the Rocket Run music? Is there any music that was completely cut from the final game (like Pokey Pipes, Frosty Frolics, etc.)? Was Rattly meant to be playable? I could come up with lots of other questions, but I'll leave it at that.

And it doesn't matter to me if the article won't appear until November. I'm just glad there's going to be one in the first place!

It's amazing how the past 12 months have been with respect to Rare prototypes.

[Gaz]

I knew I could help you out by giving you the news, Blaziken257.

[Blaziken257]

Yep I'm happy to know about this.

Also, something that I forgot to mention earlier... I've heard of a few people whose cartridges have glitches when beating K. Rool Duel. Basically, after the cast/credits, the graphics are temporarily glitched until you refresh to another screen (at least that's how I understand it -- it's never happened to me). I later asked one person about it, and he said the cart had a sticker on the back that read, "DEMO GAME ONLY. NOT FOR RESALE." Does the prototype have this glitch, and this sticker on back, or is it a different prototype entirely?

[Qyzbud]

Thank you for the warm welcome and the marriage proposal!

I laughed.

[...]the Donkey Kong Land III article[...]
If I am not allowed to post a direct link to the article, then I will at least tell you when the page is ready so you can start your Googling.

I think it will be fine to provide links to your articles here, so long as there are no commercial ROMs directly available through the page you link to. Even links to commercially unavailable prototype ROMs ought to be fine, I believe. Our ROM linking/requesting rules are just to protect us from getting in trouble for 'ripping off' Nintendo, etc, so I see no problem with providing these otherwise unavailable artefacts of gaming history.

And yeah, if I say it's okay here, then it is. At least until Nintendo complains. (but I honestly can't see that happening)

[Nintendo Player]

I haven't forgotten about you guys!

I think it will be fine to provide links to your articles here, so long as there are no commercial ROMs directly available through the page you link to. Even links to commercially unavailable prototype ROMs ought to be fine, I believe. Our ROM linking/requesting rules are just to protect us from getting in trouble for 'ripping off' Nintendo, etc, so I see no problem with providing these otherwise unavailable artefacts of gaming history.

And yeah, if I say it's okay here, then it is. At least until Nintendo complains. (but I honestly can't see that happening)

Sounds good to me, boss! Nintendo Player has a similar policy: No commercial/retail ROMs are uploaded on the site, only beta data that is different. Prototypes do fall into kind of a legal gray area, but I believe that sharing pre-production builds of old retro titles supports the greater cause of video game preservation. Since we're in agreement here, I guess we can all stop speaking in code and I should just mention the site's URL: http://www.nintendoplayer.com/.

You've given me a lot to look for, Blaziken257! I'll keep your questions in mind when I start to play through the prototype.

And I'm not familiar with that particular demo, but this is a Game Boy EPROM development cartridge from the UK. There isn't a sticker on the back, but there is a hologram label on the front that says “CALIBRATION VOID IF LABEL REMOVED” over the EPROM to prevent people from removing the chip back in the day. The article will have scans of the physical hardware for you to check out. I've been pursuing this for several months now. It originally sold years ago, so it's not exactly a new find.

I want to give the game the five star treatment, detailing its background history and so forth, and then go straight into comparing the prototype with the 1.0 retail version. The documentation doesn't end there, as I'm hoping some of you will further delve into the gameplay and contribute to the article's findings even after the page is published! I know I'm bound to miss something.

I already finished the Halloween article, so hang in there, and I'll have Donkey Kong Land III up before you know it.

By the way, I just heard back from the Donkey Kong Country 3 prototype seller. He is not interested in trades, only cash. He's trying to get as much as he can. He said that he's going to be listing the game on eBay this week. If he can't get the asking price he wants, he might reconsider my offer. I'm assuming the auction will have a reserve and/or include a buy-it-now. He hasn't played much of the prototype because the game is huge and he doesn't know what to look for, but he did compare the game data with the American/Japanese/European versions, and it is confirmed to be somehow different.

[Nintendo Player]

Thought you folks might like to know that the Donkey Kong Country 3 prototype has now been listed on eBay with an $8,000 buy-it-now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NINTENDO-SNES-D ... 4abdf8c580

Anybody see differences in the in-game auction screenshots?

[Kingizor]

Nope, not a thing... :\

Information has been scarce from the beginning and there's still no indication that there's anything new to be seen.

[Simion32]

"I will delete the backup file I made once the buyer receives the prototype."

He is risking that this cart's data is never accessed, ever.

That... is totally unacceptable.

And what the h*** $8,000???!!?!

[Gaz]

Simion32. you gotta buy it!

[Blaziken257]

It is ridiculous that someone would charge $8000 for a prototype. It looks like this seller is one of those people who only care about green sheets of paper, and nothing else. In any case, who in their right mind would pay $8000 for that? I see the appeal in prototypes, but even $800 would be too much. Even if it's the only known cart to exist, anything above $200 is unreasonable (and even then, $200 is kinda pushing it).

I have very high doubts that anybody will pay for it. Which, ironically, will cause the seller to make nothing off it. Great. And meanwhile, we'll all lose history.

It's also concerning that I don't recognize anything unusual in those screenshots. I even compared them one by one, and I came up with nothing. Is there even any difference? That's a rhetorical question, obviously, seeing that nobody here would know. I imagine if there are any differences, they'd be the ones mentioned in this thread.

Also, @Gaz, I don't think people like it if you tell them to spend an arm and a leg on a cartridge. Just saying.

As an aside, I'm looking forward to seeing the DKL3 article, and trying the prototype to find some differences. I'm sure I would easily spot them. I've played it extensively for over a decade, so yeah.

[Gaz]

Sorry about that (and to you Simion32.) I was anxious.

[Raccoon Sam]

Well, the folks at hidden-palace.org (well, drx, pretty much alone) bought 1024 never-before-seen prototypes of various games and paid a 5-digit sum only to release them for free on the internet. I'm pretty sure he got donations to help, but still. Hero among men.
DKC-atlas is still a quite small community and crowdfunding this won't probably work. Hope it gets bought and dumped though.

[Nintendo Player]

Thanks for your patience, guys. As promised, here's the Donkey Kong Land III prototype article:
http://www.nintendoplayer.com/prototype ... prototype/

You can find the download at the bottom of the page. I put a lot of work into making this release possible, so if you appreciate the effort, please spread the link around on forums and via social media! My hope is that this will help inspire folks to share and document other Rare prototypes.

Now let's uncover more of Donkey Kong Land III's secrets! If you find any changes not yet mentioned in the article, please let me know so I can add your discoveries. I'll give you full credit, of course. (Maybe we should start a new thread so as to not further derail this one?)

Have fun monkeying around,

Mike

P.S. I sent the DKC3 seller a link to the Brazilian TV ad on YouTube and the list of some its beta differences. I'm hoping that he'll use that as a guide and take some more pictures so we can determine just how far along the build is.

[Blaziken257]

Thanks for posting the article!! That is a huge list of differences -- much more than I anticipated. I wonder if I would have even noticed some of them if I didn't see the article... it's interesting how much things have changed. I'm trying the prototype as I'm writing this, so if I find anything more, I'll be sure to mention it! Thanks again!

Also, the unlock all levels cheat is actually Up, Down, Left, Left, Down, Up, Right in every version of the game -- there's a lot of misconception as for the what the real code is, since people have apparently discovered the code by adding unnecessary button presses. While yours still works, some of the button presses aren't actually part of the code, so you may want to fix that.

EDIT: OMG I already found a difference!! It's in Seabed Shanty in a hidden area full of coins and such. The series of blast barrels to get to this hidden location is different between the prototype and final.

Prototype:


Final (both v1.0 and v1.1):

[Nintendo Player]

Sweet God, that was fast! I fixed the cheat and also added your discovery to the page (I hope crediting you as "Blaziken257" is fine). Keep 'em coming!

[Blaziken257]

Thanks for adding it! And yes, crediting me as "Blaziken257" is perfectly fine.

I noticed another difference: The animation when grabbing a balloon is glitchy. The balloon takes a while for it to actually pop. Also, if the balloon started out as invisible (like a couple in Seabed Shanty), the balloon momentarily turns visible before popping. I can record an animation if necessary.

This bug is weird, since DKL3's game engine was built off DKL2's, which didn't have this glitch.

[Nintendo Player]

I never noticed that about the balloons. Yeah, if it isn't too much trouble, animate away! My eyes are starting to glaze over right now from hours of playing this game, so I'm going to take a break. I'll add everything in later, but please keep the list of differences growing!

[Blaziken257]

I'll get around to the animation later. In the meantime, I found some other differences. I don't have screenshots yet, but I'll just list them for now:

Seabed Shanty

- There is a secret set of blast barrels that launch you through a wall, after the first bonus barrel (needed to get 1:20 in Time Attack mode). In the prototype, there are three blast barrels, and the right side of the wall is concave. In the final, there are only two blast barrels, and the right side of the wall is convex.

Ford Knocks

- Just before the first horizontal rope (about 1/3 through the stage), a Lurchin is farther left in the prototype than in the final.
- In the boardwalk just above the extra life balloons that you already mentioned, the Sneeks start 32px farther to the left than in the final. It's hard to notice, but the difference is there.

Total Rekoil

- Between the two invisible barrels leading up to the first bonus, there is a banana in the prototype. It's not there in the final.
- A small part of the wall on the right (where the first elevator starts) looks different in the prototype.
- Off-screen, a few floors were extended in the final version. It's probably impossible to see this without hacking (i.e. by using a map dumper*, forcing the screen to scroll, or looking at the map data in RAM starting at 0xC600), which makes me wonder why Rare bothered in the first place. Compare: [Prototype] [Final]

I only looked in Cape Codswallop so far, but if I find anything else, I'll let you know! I didn't look too thoroughly at the bonus stages yet, though. I should also have added the SGB border in those animated GIFs before, so I should fix that soon.

*Yes, I've been working on a map dumper for a while, but it's not completely finished yet. I guess now is a good time to start finishing it, and then release it...

[Gaz]

Awesome! The prototype has been dumped . This is great! Also, Blaziken257 might be able to help you out on this prototype's differences more. He is, as far as I know, the world's biggest Donkey Kong Land knowledgebase.

By the way, any prototype for Vampire Piggy Hunter? There has to be somewhere.

Also, Qyzbud. You might want to split the conversations for the DKC3 Beta and the DKL3 beta to help the atlas stay neat (like you told me).

[Qyzbud]

Fantastic work on the article, Mike! I look forward to reading through it in full when time permits.

I'm impressed with the analytical/comparative work you've done so far, exposing what has changed from the prototype version to the commercial release... and good work on the extra observations/refinements and animated examples, Blaziken257 — I knew we could count on you to chip in some advanced insight.

On behalf of curious DKL3 fans and enthusiasts the world over, thank you, Mike/Nintendo Player for the prototype release!

By the way...

Spoiler!

Excellent article, Mike! This will make for great reading (and exploring of the prototype!) ...but why has this tweet been tagged 'nes'? :-p

You might want to split the conversations for the DKC3 Beta and the DKL3 beta to help the atlas stay neat [...]

Good point — I'll take a look and see if this is the best move.

[Nintendo Player]

Really appreciate your help, Blaziken257! This was actually my first time playing DKLIII, so it's great to get these insights from an experienced player such as yourself. I look forward to reading more of your discoveries and adding them to the page.

The development process that a game goes through has always fascinated me, which is why I'm a sucker for prototypes! I love this stuff!

Spoiler!

Qyzbud, the site's tweets are generated automatically using a slew of Nintendo-related hashtags. Truth be told, I'm not the most socially networked guy. I let Google Feedburner handle all of that for me. Probably explains why I have -2 followers! (Thanks for the retweet, by the way!)