DKC Atlas Forum

[The Kirby]

I've was always a bit intrigued by the extra amount of work that went into DKC3's port compared to it's predecessors. Especially when it comes to this port's newly added world, Pacifica.

Now... I think DKC3 SNES was somewhat rushed in its development, and as a result, ended up being shorter than what Rareware originally intended it to be. Because of this, a lot of things that were programmed into the game were "dummied" and never used in any of the levels. Although this is purely theory and guess work, mind you, but there's something about the levels in Pacifica have that just don't quite feel like they were tackily placed into the port.

TNT Knocka, which looks like it could have been in DKC3

TNT Knocka.PNG (13.93 KiB) Viewed 96463 times

The Kroctopus, which looks a bit tacky and doesn't fit with DKC3 SNES' rendered art scheme

Kroctopus.PNG (28.33 KiB) Viewed 96464 times

My theory is that the TNT Knocka, is actually an enemy that exists in DKC3 SNES's coding, but was never used, and when the developers for the DKC3 GBA port discovered this enemy (among other things) they decided to save themselves the trouble and use all of these new gameplay elements to create Pacifica, where a few of the new levels contained something that didn't previously exist in any of the DKC3 SNES levels. It was probably a way they could rehash the old as new.

I don't think this is too far-fetched. After all, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island SNES had an unused red bullet cannon sprite that was never used in any of the original levels in the SNES version. However, Super Mario Advance 3 (the GBA remake) had six new levels, and one of the levels contained the red bullet cannon.

What do you guys think? Could Ripcurl Reef's weird floaty thingies have been an obstacle in the original SNES version? What about the rising/lowering water in Dingy Drain-Pipe?

Maybe once people start hacking the game, we'll know for sure.

[Simion32]

What do you guys think? Could Ripcurl Reef's weird floaty thingies have been an obstacle in the original SNES version? What about the rising/lowering water in Dingy Drain-Pipe?

To me, it looks like they borrowed the effect used in Ripcurl Reef from Gusty Glade in DKC2. Those 'things' look like leaves, and it would make sense since the nearby area has trees fallen. Again the same for the rising/lowering water - I just think it was adopted from DKC2.

By the way, I plan on doing SNES-styled level layouts for Pacifica, so you can play these extra levels in the DKCLB. It would be completely awesome to play Pacifica in SNES style!

[Qyzbud]

Well I think they probably did create the TNT Knocka (Knockaboom, I'd like to call him ) way back when, but as it was a little bit too much like DKC2 thievery, they innovated him by teaching him to klasp onto ropes. I guess that's a bit of a DKC2 idea, again (think of Klinger), but a bit more inventive and unusual.

Using 'Knockaboom' in the DKC3 port was probably a quick way to bring a slightly 'new' element into play for DKC3. I know I'd do that... anything useful that was cut from the final SNES version would be first on my list to weave in, if I was porting/revamping a game which had beta files handy.

I wish I could add more thoughts... I haven't really played Pacifica.

[Cody]

If that theory is true at all, it certainly doesn't work for Sunken Spruce. The only levels that were originally intended to have water were the water ( ), cavern, river, and lakeside levels. What confirms this is not the picture below, but the fact that there would be effects in the game's coding if it was originally intended to contain bodies of water.

Done with an AR code to prove my theory:

[Simion32]

What confirms this is not the picture below, but the fact that there would be effects in the game's coding if it was originally intended to contain bodies of water.
Done with an AR code to prove my theory:

Yes, but using an AR code is an AR code... it doesn't account for other effects, it just forces the Kongs to swim. The code only modifies the Kong's movement status - meaning, there can be an 'environment' variable in the level data which tells the game to use water/land/whatever. The water effects won't appear in that level because the game wasn't coded to load that level as one that has water. The water option would have to be set ON like it is in other watered levels. At least, that's what I think. To confirm this would require a decent bit of hacking, however.

[Kiddy14]

Well I think they probably did create the TNT Knocka (Knockaboom, I'd like to call him ) way back when, but as it was a little bit too much like DKC2 thievery, they innovated him by teaching him to klasp onto ropes. I guess that's a bit of a DKC2 idea, again (think of Klinger), but a bit more inventive and unusual.

I agree with Qyz... I think the TNT Knocka was made using Knocka's physics (of course, adding the explosion thingy, which I think is unfinished since if you throw a TNT Knocka to another one while the other one is inmobile, it will explode, but if you throw it while it's moving, it would simply go throw it leadin to your death if you don't move quick XD), and the Klasp render...

[Blaziken257]

Since I have Tile Layer Pro, I'll try to look for any TNT Knocka sprites in the ROM.

I hope the tiles aren't compressed like in SOME GAMES...

[The Kirby]

I forgot to mention that the ports of DKC and DKC2 don't contain new levels like the DKC3 port. Which is odd, because DKC seems like it could have used more levels than what DKC3 did. However, if we assume that the coding for the new Pacifica elements were dummied in DKC3 SNES, than it makes sense why the developers were willing to make new levels specifically for that purpose, because the code for these things was standing right in front of them to use from DKC3 SNES's original coding.

I mean, the add-ins that were made for DKC and DKC2's ports were lame minigames and a rather poorly rendered boss. DKC3 has some of these things, too, but it also has an entirely new world with its own levels. It just doesn't make sense that the port developers would put more effort into DKC3's port than the other DKC's, especially considering what little attention DKC3's SNES release got compared to its predecessors. Which is why I think that the things in Pacifica are dummied in DKC3 SNES, and were included in the GBA port, because of the game being rushed compared to the other two DKC's (the game was released during the N64's lifetime, after all.)

[BlueTronic]

I thought this was pretty interesting: If swimming you put in the swimming code in Low-G Labrynth you move backwards like in Poisenous Pipeline

[Kiddy14]

Most likely because in the SNES version, the only Pipeline level with water is Poisonous Pipeline. If we use the theory that every related level is united in the top/sides/down of each level, Rareware could have used that to apply only one water layer/condition to every pipeline level.

[The Kirby]

Someone should try the code on Demolition Drain-Pipe, then. What's the AR code for swimming anywhere, anyway?

[BlueTronic]

All you do is swim on Demolition Drain Pipe, but if you get in the sled thing hitting walls won't hurt you but you won't be able to jump.

The code is 7E051000

Note: If you turn it off, you won't stop swimming unless you change screens (The same doesn't go for Purple Squawks) If you do it then turn into Squitter, he'll be gone, you'll have his color pallette, and you'll keep floating up. Ellie and Squawks will just keep floating up.

[The Kirby]

The only levels that were originally intended to have water were the water ( ), cavern, river, and lakeside levels.

There seems to be exceptions to this, actually. I tried the water code in several different levels, and some have different effects associated with water. But some weren't dependant on the level type. For example, the cave levels. Buzzer Barrage and Creepy Caverns have absolutely no water effects, and Tyrant Twin Tussle has glitched bubbles. The only cave level that shows accurate water effects is Pot Hole Panic, and that level DID have water in it originally.

Don't know if it would look different without the volcanic hue.

Glitched Bubbles.PNG (38.84 KiB) Viewed 96255 times

So... perhaps Sunken Spruce could be the "Pot Hole Panic" of the tree levels.

[BlueTronic]

That happened to me when I went to the last Pot Hole Panic bonus. Crazy bubbles!

[Kiddy14]

Since I have Tile Layer Pro, I'll try to look for any TNT Knocka sprites in the ROM.

So... have you tried out yet?

[The Kirby]

I used YY-CHR to look through the ROM and found sets of images of this guy:

Knockaboom.PNG (1009 Bytes) Viewed 96191 times

This seems to be the "Knockaboom's" sitting position before he runs out and attacks your Kongs. I'm pretty confident that this isn't an image of the Klasp, due to the lack of arms coming out of the top of the barrel (which the Klasp always has poking out.) I also did tests to try and verify this, by deleting the graphics from the ROM to see if it would cut off parts of the Klasp/Knocka in-game... it didn't.

I had to piece this guy together with the tile editor, so I hope I did a pretty good job... all of the tiles were right next to each other, so it wasn't too difficult. Near the tiles were more graphics of the Knockaboom, such as frames when it starts running after you.

Man, I wish we could hack this guy into the game somehow.

[Kiddy14]

So this guy's actually in the SNES version? Cool!But it may probably just be a game sprite, and the actual exploding code and the hitting detection for him wasn't fully developed, I guess...

[The Kirby]

Incomplete Knockaboom.PNG (3.75 KiB) Viewed 96165 times

I'm going to guess that this Knockaboom is probably still in the game, and is fully functional as an enemy. I think the reason we never saw it in DKC3 is because the level designers just didn't have any immediate use for it in any of their levels, and didn't get a chance to implement it into any of the levels due to DKC3's rushed release date. Same goes with the other unique elements we saw in Pacifica's levels.

I think Simeon32 made a pretty good point about the floaty thingies/rising and lowering water being from DKC2. But I think the question now is whether those things were taken from the DKC2 port for the DKC3 port, or that DKC3 SNES took it from DKC2 SNES, but ended up being dummied. Perhaps the developers wanted to bring those DKC2 level elements over to DKC3, but the level designers ended up never using them, because they saw it as ripping off of DKC2 too much. Of course, if that were the case, they wouldn't have made levels like Krack-Shot Kroc (Web Woods.) Most of DKC3's levels bring a new gameplay element that we hadn't seen in the previous DKC's, so this could be a possibility.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but DKC3 SNES's barrel cannons are annoyingly unresponsive. They made them a lot more responsive in the GBA remake, and that's probably why they were willing to make Cliffside Blast, which heavily relied on barrel cannons.

[Qyzbud]

Kirby, well found indeed! That bottom sprite definitely doesn't belong to a Klasp; they never tilt over that much. Looks like those are legitimate, unused sprites. It's kind of surprising that game designers like Rareware, who take so much pride in their products, leave behind these leftover relics... I guess you'd have to make allowances for projects as large and complex as the DKC games.

Perhaps with a little bit of hacking/memory manipulation, it would be possible to replace another baddie/object (perhaps a Knocka, to be logical) with a Knockaboom... then we could see if his behaviours/reactions etc. are also coded into the game. This is an exciting concept!

Even if not, the presence of the sprites in DKC3's SNES game data means we can have our good mate Knockaboom show up in our custom levels, once the DKCLB gets that far through development. One of these days, someone's gonna find Rambunkshus using techniques like this.

Slightly off-topic: Krack-Shot Kroc is hardly a copy of Web Woods... but I agree about DKC3's barrel cannons.

[Raccoon Sam]

Here's the complete sheet.


His tiles begin at 0x0010DBE1, hands are not included.

[Simion32]

hands are not included.

The hands are probably the same as the green Knockas, but with a different palette.

Once I get some free time, I'll do a bit of hacking and see if Rare left any other Knockaboom data in the game. If Knockaboom has indeed been left in the game, I might be able to hack an object modifier for him, which I can distribute in the form of an IPS patch. Wish me luck!

[Raccoon Sam]

The hands are probably the same as the green Knockas, but with a different palette.

Most obviously.

Once I get some free time, I'll do a bit of hacking and see if Rare left any other Knockaboom data in the game. If Knockaboom has indeed been left in the game, I might be able to hack an object modifier for him, which I can distribute in the form of an IPS patch. Wish me luck!

That'd be really awesome..!

[Simion32]

I'm having some luck with hacking an object modifier; I just happened to be browsing YouTube and found a video with a level modifier PAR code!

The code: 7E00C0 XX (26 = Kreeping Klasps)

You may think that yes, it's just a PAR code to switch the level you go to... but with such an address I can trace everything that uses the address, which will allow me to figure out where each level's object data (as well as tilemaps) are stored.

After I find any level's object data I can begin documenting DKC3's object bytes!

[Qyzbud]

Outstanding, good sir.

I will have to launch a PAR code thread in the General DKC discussion board, which can serve as a repository for all useful codes we know and discover as a community.

Best of luck with the hacking/documenting.

[Raccoon Sam]

Simion32: I have a document that lists every level byte of DKC3 on my computer, in case you're interested.
EDIT: I'm not on my computer as posting this message.. Otherwise I would've attached it :X
EDIT 2: Now I'm home. See below.

Qyz says: that's definitely spoiler material...

*** DKC3 LEVEL BYTES ***
(to be used with modifier code 7E00C0##)

Spoiler!

00:00C0 current level

00
01
02
03
04
05
06
07
08 Credits underwater scene
09 Credits mill scene 1
0A Credits winter scene 1
0B Credits mountain scene
0C Credits winter scene 2
0D Credits mill scene 2
0E
0F Credits Bear photos
10 Credits Sideshow scene
11 Credits Boss photos
12
13 Credits K. Rool scene
14
15 Credits Kiddy Scene
16 Credits Dixie Scene
17
18
19
1A Bazza's Blockade cave
1B Fish Food Frenzy cave
1C Floodlit Fish cave
1D Belcha's Barn
1E Arich's Ambush
1F Squirt's Showdown
20 KAOS Karnage
21 Bleak's House
22 Barbos's Barrier
23 Kastle KAOS
24 Knautilus
25 Lakeside Limbo
26 Kreeping Klasps
27 Tidal Trouble
28 Doorstop Dash
29 Squeals on Wheels
2A Murky Mill
2B Skidda's Row
2C Lemguin Lunge
2D Tearaway Toboggan
2E Ripsaw Rage
2F Springin' Spiders
30 Barrel Shield Bust-up
31 Swoopy Salvo
32 Riverside Race
33 Lightning Lookout
34 Bobbing Barrel Brawl
35 Bazza's Blockade
36 Fish Food Frenzy
37 Floodlit Fish
38 Rocket Barrel Ride
39 Tracker Barrel Trek
3A Barrel Drop Bounce
3B Fire Ball Frenzy
3C Blazing Bazukas
3D Krack-Shot Krock
3E Low-G Labyrinth
3F Poisonous Pipeline
40 Demolition Drain-Pipe
41 Krevice Kreepers
42 Kong-Fused Cliffs
43 Ropey Rumpus
44 Buzzer Barrage
45 Pot Hole Panic
46 Creepy Caverns
47 Koindozer Klamber
48 Konveyor Rope Klash
49 Stampede Sprint
4A Criss Kross Cliffs
4B Tyrant Twin Tussle
4C Rocket Rush
4D Swanky's Sideshow
4E
4F
50 Lakeside Limbo bonus 1
51 Lakeside Limbo bonus 2
52 Doorstop Dash bonus 1
53 Doorstop Dash bonus 2
54 Tidal Trouble bonus 1
55 Tidal Trouble bonus 2
56 Skidda's Row bonus 1
57 Skidda's Row bonus 2
58 Squeals on Wheels bonus 1
59 Squeals on Wheels bonus 2
5A Barrel Shield Bust-up bonus 1
5B Barrel Shield Bust-up bonus 2
5C Riverside Race bonus 1
5D Riverside Race bonus 2
5E Murky Mill Bonus 1
5F Murky Mill Bonus 2
60 Springin' Spiders bonus 1
61 Springin' Spiders bonus 2
62 Lightning Lookout bonus 1
63 Lightning Lookout bonus 2
64 Bazza's Blockade bonus 1
65 Bazza's Blockade bonus 2
66 Rocket Barrel Ride bonus 1
67 Rocket Barrel Ride bonus 2
68 Kreeping Klasps bonus 1
69 Kreeping Klasps bonus 2
6A Tracker Barrel Trek bonus 1
6B Tracker Barrel Trek bonus 2
6C Fish Food Frenzy bonus 1
6D Fish Food Frenzy bonus 2
6E Fire Ball Frenzy bonus 1
6F Fire Ball Frenzy bonus 2
70 Demolition Drain-Pipe bonus 1
71 Demolition Drain-Pipe bonus 2
72 Ripsaw Rage bonus 1
73 Ripsaw Rage bonus 2
74 Blazing Bazukas bonus 1
75 Blazing Bazukas bonus 2
76 Low-G Labyrinth bonus 1
77 Low-G Labyrinth bonus 2
78 Krevice Kreepers bonus 1
79 Krevice Kreepers bonus 2
7A Tearaway Toboggan bonus 1
7B Tearaway Toboggan bonus 2
7C Barrel Drop Bounce bonus 1
7D Barrel Drop Bounce bonus 2
7E Krack-Shot Kroc bonus 1
7F Krack-Shot Kroc bonus 2
80 Lemguin Lunge bonus 1
81 Lemguin Lunge bonus 2
82 Buzzer Barrage bonus 1
83 Buzzer Barrage bonus 2
84 Kong-Fused Cliffs bonus 1
85 Kong-Fused Cliffs bonus 2
86 Floodlit Fish bonus 1
87 Floodlit Fish bonus 2
88 Pot Hole Panic bonus 1
89 Pot Hole Panic bonus 2
8A Ropey Rumpus bonus 1
8B Ropey Rumpus bonus 2
8C Koindozer Klamber bonus 1
8D Koindozer Klamber bonus 2
8E Creepy Caverns bonus 1
8F Creepy Caverns bonus 2
90 Bobbing Barrel Brawl bonus 1
91 Bobbing Barrel Brawl bonus 2
92 Konveyor Rope Klash bonus 1
93 Konveyor Rope Klash bonus 2
94 Poisonous Pipeline bonus 1
95 Poisonous Pipeline bonus 2
96 Swoopy Salvo bonus 1
97 Swoopy Salvo bonus 2
98 Swoopy Salvo bonus 3
99 Criss Kross Cliffs bonus 1
9A Criss Kross Cliffs bonus 2
9B Tyrant Twin Tussle bonus 1
9C Tyrant Twin Tussle bonus 2
9D Tyrant Twin Tussle bonus 3
9E Stampede Sprint bonus 1
9F Stampede Sprint bonus 2
A0 Stampede Sprint bonus 3

[The Kirby]

Wow! I think this helped me find that weird level I was sent to in Rocket Rush!

[Simion32]

Thanks Sam, that helped a lot, now i don't have to see what level is what number!

SIXTEEN empty level slots which actually fade-in to a gray screen or crash... I sense a cover-up! Let's see... 6 normal levels, which include Dingy Drainpipe, Stormy Seas, Sunken Spruce, Cliffside Blast, Ripcurl Reef, and Surf's Up. Plus one new boss, leaving 9 slots left.

Five or more of these leftover slots could be used for extra Bonus levels, which would explain why Boomer's last special is 25 coins, not two sets of 15. Also, I suspect that Rare may have intended you to blow up the rock in front of Boomer's with the last 15 Bonus coins you would have acquired by then. And the gears would be required for you to actually get to the Knautilus. With 90 Bonus Coins, it would all fit together quite nicely.

There is a (test?) level at slot $00. It's basically a bare-bones copy of doorstop dash with cave music and no objects, where trapdoors and ropes don't work either. I suspect this level is actually used in the introduction demo.

I do notice that "Service Stops" such as Wrinkly's Save Cave and the Brother's Bear are not listed. Perhaps Rare learned from their past mistakes (they used a separate level slot for each "Service Stop" in DKC) and did most of the side-attractions through straight code instead of having them use up level slots, so that they could fit more levels in.

It would be really neat if there are more leftovers of Pacifica levels in the game!

[Raccoon Sam]

There is a (test?) level at slot $00. It's basically a bare-bones copy of doorstop dash with cave music and no objects, where trapdoors and ropes don't work either. I suspect this level is actually used in the introduction demo.

Hey, didn't see that.. Nice find..!
That reminds me.. The DKC3 GBA ROM Contains a text string "Trev's Test Level" among other level names. We should definitely look into that too.
'Trev' is likely Trevor Attwood.

[The Kirby]

SIXTEEN empty level slots which actually fade-in to a gray screen or crash... I sense a cover-up!

Are you suggesting that the empty slots which freeze could actually still contain level data? Or are they just pointing to the wrong place in ROM or what? Be funny if the Pacifica levels were still in the SNES version in some form, considering how slip-shot the ports are as far as original material is concerned (I actually found most of Pacifica's levels to be pretty enjoyable, surprisingly enough.)

[Kiddy14]

There is a (test?) level at slot $00. It's basically a bare-bones copy of doorstop dash with cave music and no objects, where trapdoors and ropes don't work either. I suspect this level is actually used in the introduction demo.

I remember that level! It's in the video I saw, which I told in this thread, because I could see the upper part of the ceiling like in Kirby's thread=)

[Simion32]

Are you suggesting that the empty slots which freeze could actually still contain level data? Or are they just pointing to the wrong place in ROM or what?

The levels that fade to gray were blanked out by Rare... why else would it show a gray screen? They could have used it for blank level pointers (meaning they had not made a level for that slot yet), but it still seems that something is missing. I mean, I doubt they would waste their time to put in a gray screen to be displayed for each dummied level for any other reason. And DKC used almost ALL of its levels slots, with about 3 out of the 256 being beta test areas.

Plus, if the SNES was really crashing the screen would be black/corrupted. The level data itself (if it still exists) is probably be lost somewhere within the ROM, as it's obvious they replaced the (supposedly Pacifica's) level pointers with pointers to this gray screen thing. Even IF the data isn't there, they definitely had enough room.

Also, Pacifica's levels do not look like they were just thrown together to put into the port. Neither does the level map screen. Another thing to note is that levels past $A0 will crash the game, whereas the previous blank levels go to a gray screen.

EDIT: I found the exact code address which is determining the Object Map to use. Give me a while longer, and I should be able to hack an individual object modifier for some level.

[Krow111]

This is very interesting! I wonder if some of the palettes of the Pacifica levels still exist in the game?

[Kobble]

So Pacifica was most likely intended for the SNES, but the general idea as to why it wasn't was because DKC3 was rushed?

That makes sense. I was disappointed with the DKC port because it didn't add a new level or a new boss like DKC2 and DKC3 did. DKC could've used more levels... ah, oh well. Atleast we got Necky Nutmare in DKC GBC.

I always did feel that there was a big empty space at the top of the DKC3 SNES map... like a world could have gone there.

[PotoGamer]

This is pretty cool! I guess there WAS another world thought out for DKC3! However, I don't think that ALL of the ideas were in the original...

For example, I don't think that Stormy Seas was going to have that night/windy background, or that Dingy Drainpipe was going to have lowering/rising water. I think they were just maps that they created for DKC3 but never had time to include into the game. However, I think that a few ideas (such as Sunken Spruce or Ripcurl Reef) were going to be done.

[KAOSKarnage]

Well I think they probably did create the TNT Knocka (Knockaboom, I'd like to call him ) way back when, but as it was a little bit too much like DKC2 thievery, they innovated him by teaching him to klasp onto ropes. I guess that's a bit of a DKC2 idea, again (think of Klinger), but a bit more inventive and unusual.

Using 'Knockaboom' in the DKC3 port was probably a quick way to bring a slightly 'new' element into play for DKC3. I know I'd do that... anything useful that was cut from the final SNES version would be first on my list to weave in, if I was porting/revamping a game which had beta files handy.

I wish I could add more thoughts... I haven't really played Pacifica.

It's official name is Kracka, it's name can be found in the SNES code near Knockas.

[WesternTanager794]

This is very interesting! I don’t know what to think. Perhaps, they had this in the development! I’ll do more research!