DKC Atlas Forum

[WAZ__Up]

Im sitting here trying to figure out exactly what is the difference between DKCRE and DKCLB. you're moving around bananas and creating them (and other objects it seems) in your DKCRE, then at the same time, wouldnt creating objects and things technically be building a level?

maybe everybody else has it figured out but simion, if you or someone else could please explain what these differences are because they both look like "level building" to me (are they 2 projects that will merge into one program or am i just completly missing it?)

[Simion32]

Im sitting here trying to figure out exactly what is the difference between DKCRE and DKCLB. you're moving around bananas and creating them (and other objects it seems) in your DKCRE, then at the same time, wouldnt creating objects and things technically be building a level?

As you will read below, you are never creating objects in DKCRE, only editing what already exists using existing data in its native format.

The difference, my friend, is not in the overall end result of what these two programs will accomplish... the difference lies in how the programs do what they do, and the range of abilities they will possess.


DKCLB and DELTA:
With the DKC Level Builder, I am researching each of the three DKC games, taking notes of how they operate, and creating my own custom, proprietary, PC-based game engine and editor which will run directly on Windows without any kind of emulator back-end such as ZSNES.
The aim here is to replicate the original games in a single engine (again, an *.exe file) using C++ code, and then allow users to expand on that with custom games, levels, music, objects etc...

DKCRE:
The DKC Resource editor is an application that will edit or extract data from the ROM images of each game individually (no cross-game stuff here). You can only use what's already in the game with DKCRE, and hacks (as they are called ROM hacks...) created with DKCRE must be played on an emulator. With DKCRE there is no way you will ever bypass the limits of the SNES, because you are limited to hacking the ROM itself and playing on an SNES equivalent (be it an emulator or the real thing). You are never creating objects in DKCRE, only editing what already exists using existing data in its native format.
The aim of DKCRE is to allow editing the original games themselves, in their original ROM format (an *.smc file). Here, expanding on the game itself is considered nearly impossible.

[Markster]

Good to hear that DKCRE is coming soon, i am sick and tired of using DKEdit to hack DKC.

[WAZ__Up]

oh, now it makes sense to me, thank you. But if you're already making a level builder that goes much beyond anything DKCRE can do, wouldn't everybody just want to use the super awesome level builder instead of just the rom editor? The only reasons i could think of not using DKCLB is computer limitations, having a more simple program, or just the ease of loading a hacked rom into any emulator without installing a mass program.

[Simion32]

But if you're already making a level builder that goes much beyond anything DKCRE can do, wouldn't everybody just want to use the super awesome level builder instead of just the rom editor?

Indeed they likely would... however, the DKCLB and DELTA Game Engine will take far longer to construct than DKCRE will. The reason I'm doing DKCRE at this time is that it is the "pioneer", if you will, where all of the ROM data needed to build DKCLB is uncovered and understood.

That, and there is an apparent lack of a really usable, native-English-language ROM editor - that's where DKCRE v0060 comes in.


In the beginning, DELTA was reliant on extraction code in a separate program (formerly called the DKC resource extractor), because it initially needs to extract resources from the ROM in order to operate. The extraction code and the knowledge that came with that code was easily ready for creating a ROM editor program, and this splintered off into DKCRE.

Of course I would have had to create NitroGUI at some point, it just so happened to start somewhere after DKCRE v0059 was released because the hardcoded interface wasn't working; ....DKCRE became the first program to need the editing interface badly.

Thus, it's the first one to get the NitroGUI makeover, not DKCLB/DELTA.

[tatanga]

This has probably already been stated numerous times, but if there are any ways anyone can help you, be sure and let me know and I'd be glad to help. Good luck with the project!

[Simion32]

WIP Update: As if moving Bananas around and changing them wasn't enough, you will get to do this too:

<Outdated Image Deleted>
Latest build, showing off the in-progress banana group editing capability!

While I was designing a structure for the object editing code (trying to get away from editing the native data directly), this little advancement became possible and I decided to take the time to add it to the bananas mode.

Of course, there are limits to how much you can do with the group editor. I still need to add in scroll bars, a few buttons, and a data meter to indicate how much room you have left for banana groups (yeah that's right, the groups will be written DYNAMICALLY back into the ROM data).

[Cyclone]

Cool stuff Simion. Any chance on seeing the latest build?

[Simion32]

That was the latest build. If you mean a demo? Then no, sorry. The program is not ready for release, although I am making a lot of progress - I've only had a week or three of 'mostly uninterrupted' development time, I need a little longer than that to "output" a decent program. Plus this is christmas break, so it hasn't been without its interruptions. Especially today.

I'm not going to rush v0060 just because of a holiday. When this gets released, I want it to be well-rounded. Thus the additions to the banana editing (the object editing, what little of it existed, has to be rewritten due to the aforementioned structure change, but this will allow it to go much faster - I'm going to use some of Mattrizzle's valuable research (and do some of my own - I WANT to have vertical levels editable!)).

Only 6 days left before new year's, so don't expect to see it then either. Just sayin'.

[tatanga]

I love the new dynamic banana group editing features, Simion32! Keep up the good work but don't stress out. This is turning into what looks to be an outstanding editor.

[Cosmicman]

This is so awesome, I always wanted to do a really long free fall bonus level collecting thousands of bananas, with this I will be able to fill the screen. Anyways, great way to end 2010.

[Simion32]

Well, you'll have to be careful how you arrange the bananas when you do it — because the DKC engine can only display so many at once (DKCRE doesn't have this technical limit and just displays the theoretical appearance of the bananas in the level).

By the way, if you want to have the formations to be even larger than the screen, that is now possible (I added scrollbars). DKC can display very long lines of bananas but will have quite a bit of trouble with vertical ones — it also depends on how the group is placed in the level.

DKCRE automatically prunes blank rows/columns on the right and bottom, and you can hit the Trim Excess button if you want to remove from all sides:

Spoiler!

DKCREprev5BananaGroupEditFinalInterfaceFor0060.png (74.42 KiB) Viewed 214078 times

As a final note, when this is released, be careful how many grid/diagonal/text formations you make, and how big they are. The entire "grid" of banana slots has to be saved, meaning it takes up a lot of space (1 bit per banana slot + 2 bytes dimension info; [unless it's blank in which case DKCRE applies the group data to a hacked negative table index that allows saving some space]).

[Simion32]

Progress Update: You're gonna love this one...

<Outdated Image Deleted>
With the updated display code and the INI to back it,
object animation and detailed display became possible!

DKCRE now has an entirely new format for object entries in the GameConfig INIs, which allows the addition of meta-data to each object. Along with a new underlying code structure, this allows DKCRE to do two very big things:

(1) Display graphics based on object meta-data. You can now actually see what Barrel Cannons do!! (minus paths, of course )
(2) Objects are now animated!! Adds realism to the DKC editing experience.

[PipKong]

So by animated objects, do you mean, for example, the tires and bees will be going through there frames, or that they will be moving in the paths they would take in game?

[Simion32]

By animation I strictly mean by images/frames.

Paths are a whole 'nother ballgame, and won';t be appearing in v0060 due to the lack of needed research.

EDIT: Just thought of something major I can do to speed up the loading time - presently all graphics are loaded immediately, and this takes a few seconds (approx. 10 on my machine - but it's fast, and this time may be a lot longer for other machines). But i can create a reverse-lookup table that will allow loading graphics only when needed (of course, if you browse through the list of all objects, then all of the GFX will eventually have to be loaded anyway).

I may make that an option - load all GFX at once on startup VS load only when needed. Load only when required is the default, of course.

[tatanga]

I appreciate how you're taking the time to think of everything to make this editor as efficient as possible.

[Simion32]

Thanks.

Of course, you should be aware by now that DKCRE is quite graphics-heavy. What time the .NET framework would have wasted, DKCRE is using for graphics.

The drawing in and of itself is quite speedy, but transferring the final image to the screen (over the video bus) to be displayed can eat as much as ~65% of the processor (depending upon screen resolution). Windowed mode sucks down even more time. Because of this, don't expect DKCRE to run at a full 60FPS — you might be able to choke 30FPS out of it on a good processor, though.

As far as the algorithms and memory management goes, though, I've pretty much got it down to the wire (sprites are loaded into a compressed structure and then drawn using the structure and a high-color 16-entry palette). The objects and bananas are both sorted using Radix Sort, which is pretty much as fast as that will ever get. More improvements may come in later when/if there are opportunities to do so.

I have just implemented that reverse-lookup table, and my effort was worth it! The load time is now back to normal (roughly 1.5 seconds).

Not sure where the extra second or so is being eaten at (probably in the file loader), but my profiler is borked anyway so I couldn't find out that easily.

EDIT: Just made the file load time (only the part for reading in the file) roughly 4 times as fast by getting the address of the vector[0] element and giving that pointer to std::fstream.read(). I'll have to remember that trick for later!

vector<char> buffer;
//...
FILE.read(&buffer[0], length);

EDIT 2: The majority of the time is being used when creating the level viewer class and its subclasses. Not sure I can speed this up by much, but I can try. The only area I might be able to speed up significantly is the sprite unpacking (conversion from [SNES format] -> [BITMAP] -> [CompSprite] could be shortened to just [SNES format] -> [CompSprite] with a new function).

[Simion32]

Cumulative update compilation image.

DKCREAdvObjDispFeatures0060.png (250.33 KiB) Viewed 213933 times

I've got college starting again tomorrow, so I wanted to post this little update image as an appetizer.

I now have enough information documented/entered in the Object Dictionary that I can actually begin the juicier, actually-change-stuff-around object editing code.

Why'd it take this long to get to this point? Well, let's just say that 99.3% of all in-level function #1 objects are now documented. The dictionary also contains a few entries at the end of the list for possible "new" objects uncovered during various hack projects (DKC Reloaded, DKC Easy Edition, etc). Known beta objects (uncovered by Mattrizzle) are included as well.

[Scraps69]

Very impressive Simion32! This is literally the ultimate tool for DKEditing and is shaping up very very nicely! I very much like the progress with the bananas and the barrel cannons. Does this happen to smooth out terrain or was that the DKLB that does this?

Back this up somewhere on the internet as a private download as it would be a shame for you to lose this in a crash after all the progress!

[Simion32]

Thanks!

Does this happen to smooth out terrain or was that the DKLB that does this?

Well, I was considering including that feature in DKCRE as well as DKCLB, but it's not going to be in this version (a little too complicated for the v0060 release).

Back this up somewhere on the internet as a private download as it would be a shame for you to lose this in a crash after all the progress!

Ah, don't worry. I have this all on a dedicated 320GB HDD and I can make disc backups at will. It's about time I did another one, just to be sure.

A little update - I've literally just got the click "hit detection" working now, so now I can get into making the Object Panel (oh MAN are you gonna love what I came up with for this... ).

[Scraps69]

Hehe, very excited about this object panel! Very glad about the dictionary as well. Won't have to manually search for codes anymore.

[WAZ__Up]

Are all your features that are in the DKCRE also avaliable in the DKCLB, such as the duel frame animations and the object panel? Your DKCRE is turning out so nicely, i would just like to see these features on the DKCLB aswell.

Edit: so after about 3-4 years of working on these 2 programs, I'm suprised you wouldn't be attempting to sell it.

Edit2: one of your barrel cannons is a little glitched in the "barrel cannons...Where to?" pic...

[Simion32]

Are all your features that are in the DKCRE also avaliable in the DKCLB, such as the duel frame animations and the object panel? Your DKCRE is turning out so nicely, i would just like to see these features on the DKCLB aswell.

The DKCLB will have a similar interface, but it won't have to deal with the ROM limitations, so a few things will be different.

For instance, DKCLB does not have a such thing as an "object digit" and all the different things (say) a Zinger could do are handled through a single properties dialog instead of having to place separate objects. Also, paths are not hard-linked to objects in DKCLB, and I plan on letting you make a path move along another path (if that makes any sense).

Edit: so after about 3-4 years of working on these 2 programs, I'm suprised you wouldn't be attempting to sell it.

Well, I can't sell it, otherwise I'd get sued and the entire project would be a flop.

Edit2: one of your barrel cannons is a little glitched in the "barrel cannons...Where to?" pic...

That's on purpose. That particular Barrel Cannon is defined as follows (there's no line break in the INI file, that's just so you can read it all):

{AEE1|010B$BEC3C86F2……………|0%8…………………A…} =
**Bonus/Warp Exit Barrel (Disappears)(NO PAL)

This object and the one right after it (which is only used in Slipslide Ride) have no set palette and are forced to show up with palette 3C86F2... a default, if you will. I kept it this way because the two Exit Barrels actually show up like that in the game.

[WAZ__Up]

Well, we would never want you to get sued. But maybe some folks would just love to donate to your paypal for such an amazing project
And i assume the half billion dollar price tag above DK's head is a bit more than you can afford to buy haha

[Simion32]

Outdated image removed

Trust me guys, the upcoming release is gonna be fun... and I haven't even changed a single object digit yet!

EDIT: Just did a FULL disc backup (excluding the mostly-unchanged Game Art Gallery, which is several gigs) to DVD.
Don't want to loose all the hard work.

[Cyclone]

Does that disc back up include the images I sent you? I probably won't have time to resend them.

And I know but can't help asking. when is the next version going to be released? In a month or longer? Can't wait to see all the stuff you've added.

[Simion32]

Does that disc back up include the images I sent you? I probably won't have time to resend them.

Don't worry, those are on the previous full backup from last year (this was before NitroGUI had reached a usable state). I can always burn another DVD to back up the Game Art Gallery again.

when is the next version going to be released? In a month or longer? Can't wait to see all the stuff you've added.

I'm not exactly sure how long it will take. I've got College to deal with simultaneously, so things may randomly get delayed.

General list of what's still left in the pipeline:
(1) The rest of the Object Editing and the Item/Object/Enemy Panels (Yes, DKCRE will actually differentiate between them)
(2) Tiles editing and Tiles Panel, etc
(3) Extraction mode and dialogs for DKC and DKC2 (needs a code restructure)
(4) Anything and everything related to Save/Open and/or Level AutoLaunch capability
(5) Sprite Viewer mode
(6) Pallet Editor mode
(7) Level properties dialog(s), must be capable of at least everything DKEdit can do.
(8) Nuke Level Capability
(9) miscellaneous fixes / etc.......

Yeah, that's quite a lot, but a few items are holdovers from DKCRE v0050 that were not in v0059a. Don't worry, I'm working on it as fast as possible without getting myself burnt out.

[tatanga]

Don't worry, I'm working on it as fast as possible without getting myself burnt out.

Don't rush it, college life can be stressful! From what I've seen, I think it's safe to say this will be the most complete and resourceful editor to ever be released!

[DKCplayer]

This keeps getting better every time I come back here. Again, you're doing an awesome job at this! DKCRE reminds me of Lunar Magic in a way. Also, I've noticed that there's an off-screen Kritter (above the Dual Cache preview). Were you in the middle of dragging it while you took a screenshot?

[Simion32]

Thanks again for the complements...

DKCRE reminds me of Lunar Magic in a way.

While v0060 doesn't exactly preport to be the end-all to DKC editing, later versions will definitely be on par with Lunar Magic — it will more than likely become the "Lunar Magic" equivalent for Donkey Kong Country.

And given the newer and newer processors, we may well not even have to worry about speed issues in the long run (as I've said, DKCRE is very graphics heavy and does all the pixel pushing on the main PC, not the GFX card - and DKCLB/DELTA will both follow this same design as well). By the time the Delta Project is done we'll probably have like 5+ Terra-Hertz processors or some other unimaginable speed.

Then, take into account that we haven't even seen the DKCLB editor yet; that will be so much more epically mind-blowing than all of DKCRE's features combined! *gets excited*

Also, I've noticed that there's an off-screen Kritter (above the Dual Cache preview). Were you in the middle of dragging it while you took a screenshot?

Actually, no. Objects in DKC can be moved off the top of the screen area (but not bottom or left/right). The editor display was designed so that you can modify off-the-top-of-the-screen objects, which DKEdit will not do.

If you can't drag an object past some area in DKCRE, the object basically sticks to the invisible wall while you're dragging, and will refuse to go out of bounds.

-------------------
I can't say the same about the bounds for DKC2, though, as I think Rare's second physics implementation is a little more "solid" than their intital effort with DKC (this is still just a guesstimate based on early hacking).

EDIT: Also, speaking of backups, I've got another new 500GB HDD from Christmas I can throw verbatim full copies on (just now taking the time to set it up). So backup will be even easier.

[Simion32]

Progress Update: Camera Maps Now Editable!

DKCRE_CameraMap.png (106.35 KiB) Viewed 213711 times

I've been short on time throughout the last week or so, thus not much has gotten done.

But I have had enough time to work on the camera editing, and it is for the most part working flawlessly.

[DKCplayer]

That's still good progress though. I imagined camera map editing being the second hardest thing to do (the hardest being editing tiles). This just makes it look easier!

If you can't drag an object past some area in DKCRE, the object basically sticks to the invisible wall while you're dragging, and will refuse to go out of bounds.

That will indeed help editing a lot. Nobody wants an enemy to appear randomly out of nowhere.

[Simion32]

I imagined camera map editing being the second hardest thing to do (the hardest being editing tiles). This just makes it look easier!

It was a pain to figure out at first because the entire Camera Map behaves like a linked-together list of items, not separate objects.

But indeed, it looks easier and it IS easier. Can you say; "click and drag to move/resize"?


The way DKC does it is this:
While DK/Diddy is within the X range of the Focus Area (the width of one of those boxes), the camera will focus towards the Y Range (the height of one of those boxes). If the Kongs are already within the Focus Area, the camera just follows them on its own.

Also, right-clicking enables the "increased camera speed" flag for that particular Focus Area. When the speed is upped, it will show as Yellow/Orange/Red rather than the usual Green/Teal/Blue.

[RattleBattle]

Is this out yet? :3

[Simion32]

Progress Update: Collectibles Panel

The newly designed Collectibles Panel.

DKCRE_CollectiblesPanel.png (75.55 KiB) Viewed 213622 times

This also allows custom object entries via the INI; just in case you want to throw something else in there.

Been very busy for the last week (spring always is for me), but I decided to stay up late to get this thing working. Its code will pave the way for the Objects Panel and the Enemies Panel, although those will take much more work than this one (need to create tons of INI entries to define what objects are listed for each group, as well as relative coordinates to center the display of said objects).

[WAZ__Up]

Whats the difference between the top set of life balloons and the bottom set of life balloons?

EDIT: So whats the story behind that tree top at the bottom of the level? Every emulator or editor always shows that very same tree top

[Simion32]

Whats the difference between the top set of life balloons and the bottom set of life balloons?

Top ones stay onscreen until you move away from them, the others on the bottom float away (like normally seen in Jungle Hijinxs). The non-float ones are likely used the most in Bonus Levels.

So whats the story behind that tree top at the bottom of the level?

Essentially, it's unknown. Seems to be a leftover from Rare's design process.

--------------

You may be happy to hear I will be adding some preliminary path display for Barrel Cannons, but nothing extremely involved. A white double-sided arrow will at least give some indication that a given Barrel Cannon moves, but not what its range is. Still, this should slightly improve usability.

Also included to my Barrel Cannons mini-update will be BC's marked as [Fast] (like the ones in Reptile Rumble's bonus) and Rare (shows a styled ! — which is for the BC's that shoot in uncommon directions or have a unique property). Rare BC's will have their own subgroup on the Objects Panel to help keep things organized.

EDIT: Need I mention that you can edit the lists of objects for all 3 of these panels by modding the INI file?

[WAZ__Up]

Also, one thing i've always noticed about the DK tile set is that in the second level, the entry cave has 1 tile missing from the very middle of it. as you move back and forth you can see background objects moving past it. Im not really going anywhere with this but i think it's just a little odd. is that how it shows up in your program's levels also?
(I think its the second level, not sure but its one of the first few. i think the exit cave has the same thing for the end of jungle hijinx)

[Simion32]

EntryCave_MissingSections_BCC.png (18.41 KiB) Viewed 213568 times

Do you mean this? Yep, DKCRE shows all graphics exactly as in-game (except for animation speed, which is a fixed value).

[WAZ__Up]

Yep, thats the spot. It's really noticable in-game when the red / pink flower in the background goes past it. I remember it being bigger than than that, interesting.

EDIT: I just checked, thats exactly where the tiles are missing from, i guess it wasnt bigger than that.

[Simion32]

A quick note. I've been sick for the last few days so there has been a small delay.

I'll save the rest until my next update post.

[Simion32]

Progress Update: Tiles Panel, Objects Panel, and Features - Oh My!!

Spoiler!

DKCREprev8TilesObjectsPanels.png (78.34 KiB) Viewed 213463 times

Not much to say here, other than that things are getting done.

[WAZ__Up]

I'm going to guess that the DK Barrel (alt) is probably the DK barrel that breaks when you touch it. like in water levels.
although, you do have alot of (alt) barrels, so maybe not

[Simion32]

I'm not entirely sure what the (Alt) ones are supposed to be, other than that the "Rimmed Barrel (Alt)" has a weird pallet (DKCRE isn't showing it correctly for some reason).

This one's done too, now:

Spoiler!

I do still have to go though and actually SORT some of the objects though (where appropriate).

DKCREprev9EnemiesPanel.png (18.19 KiB) Viewed 213429 times

What took so long was putting the list parameters and catalog together - I had to work with nearly 1000 entries, sorting everything into groups and ensuring they display nicely. Now I've got to go back through again for the umpteenth time and sort the objects (right now, they are just pasted-in at whatever order they were in the Object Dictionary).

I should note that true beta objects should be placed into their respective group, tagged with "[BETA]" to indicate this.

Any digits that cannot be confirmed to be real, functional beta objects will go in the garbage digits group on the Objects Panel. No, DKCRE won't block you from using a garbage digit, in fact you can force it to use a digit by using the Set Digit button (hitting ENTER works too).

The Lookup OBJ feature is now 99% functional (there's a small bug related to the Items Panel). This can also be used by hitting SPACE or TAB after you've typed the digit rather than the ENTER key.

Miscellaneous enhancement: DKCRE's extra images are now all embedded and loaded internally from RAM. Not only that, but they are also PNG files (previously the embedded images were BMPs and wasted lots of space), meaning even more space is saved!

Release build EXE current size w/UPX packing: 474KB
Uncompressed set of all current release files: 1MB
Zipped set of all current release files: 861KB

Remaining Bugs/Fixes for This Section:
Prevent dropping down two drop-downs at once (this can cause an index-out-of-bounds crash). (Done)
Fix the Items Panel lookup bug (objects on the panel are not detected). (Done)
Fix display of Themed Platforms, since there are 3 "platform types" per each archetype.
DKCRE currently uses only the same sprite for all of the platforms, which is incorrect. (Done)
Make Barrel Cannons display basic movement graphics and the graphic for Rare BC's. (Done)
Sort objects and enemies on their respective Panels. (Done)

[Cosmicman]

Everything is coming together nicely, very exciting to see this much progress.

[Simion32]

Thanks yet again.

Progress Update: I thought you saw this one coming? Lulz

ZOMGWTFBBQHAX1111!!112one!!!?two1!

DKCREprev10VerticalLevels!!.png (344.39 KiB) Viewed 213368 times

Yes, that is a real screen shot.

EDIT: To clarify, the Vertical levels have their camera data hard coded via ASM script objects, so modification of the layout will still be difficult if not impossible (that is, unless it actually works without the script object, and you were to remove the script...).

[Markster]

Wow, this looks like a really major release of DKCRE, this is going to kill DK Edit, thats for sure, keep up the good work.

[Simion32]

In fact, DKEdit has been majorly obsoleted by DKCRE already. The sheer amount of metadata and the graphical interface is one thing, but DKCRE edits more - and IMHO does it better to begin with!

Another helping of INI file goodness allowed me to determine level digits related to the current level you're on, making this possible:

DKCREprev11MusicSettings.png (15.28 KiB) Viewed 213335 times

No more switching back and forth to change start points and/or music for alternate level digits.

[Markster]

Cool, All these tools are going to be useful for hacking DKC, when will this version be released?

[Simion32]

I couldn't definitively say a release date, but it should be "soon".

What's left on the v0060 plate:

Modes:
Extraction Mode (this is a "big" one)
Includes all the items from DKCRE v0050.
Plus binary data extraction being built/enabled.
Must include the DKC2 data extraction capability.
Can extract from hacked DKC1 ROMs using the INI as a backbone. (!)
Sprite Viewer
Copy from DKCRE v0050...
...but with NitroGUI theming and updated INI entires.
Includes Mattrizzle's INI update and fixing K. Rool Running Sprites crash if possible.
Palette Editor (easy).

Overall Features:
— Start Points Visual Editing
— File > Close
— Nuke Partial Dialog
— Nuke All Levels
— Save As and/or advanced saving features.
— Save As IPS
— Save As UPS
— Level AutoLaunch using ZSNES + Settings Dialog
— Level Selector Dialog
— Level Settings Dialog
— About Dialog