DKC Atlas Forum

[Qyzbud]

I got shots 1-6 pretty much done and with sound. For the near final phase of the of act 1.

I have been working the sound affects and scenes to create an affective stormy atmosphere.

Feel free to point out areas that need improving and also areas you do like.
The suggestions will used for the final pass of the animation. I know there isn't such thing as a final but whatever.



Thanks for the continued feedback.

I like the atmosphere you've created with the sound effects, Cyclone.

Here are some observations/suggestions:

• I think it would feel better if the thunderclaps matched the lightning strikes. Currently, we see a lot of lightning, and we hear only a few claps of thunder, but from my experience, it's more common to hear strikes you don't see than vice-versa.
  
• After looking closely at the movement of the trees, it appears that many of them are actually shifting side to side — trunk and all! It's definitely nice to see them swaying, but hopefully you can have them do so while keeping the base of the trunks secured in place.
  
• It looks like the splashing droplets move too quickly, which gives the impression of a miniature world, rather than a life-size jungle. If you slow down the splash animations (perhaps to around 50% of their current speed), things might look a bit closer to what you'd expect from a full sized environment.
  
• [0:12] DK's arm fur seems to protrude through his hand a little, and it also flickers a bit. Hopefully these are easy for you to fix with a bit of brushing and/or settings tweaks.
  
• [0:18] DK and his immediate surroundings seem to be displayed on a separate layer in this scene, which oddly separates from the rest of the scene as the view zooms. Hard to explain, but I'm sure you'll see what I mean.
  
• [0:20] There still seems to be some odd scenery switching/glitching outside the window.

Apart from these issues, I really like what I see and hear!

[Cyclone]

-There isn't much I can do about the flickering. Not sure what is causing it.
-The trees moving was like that since last year and is visible in all the scenes thus far. I just thought it wasn't that noticeable.
- I'm in the process of fixing the window layers and that moving layer with DK. I was just rushing things.

oh and the thunder. I just though it would be way too noisy to have thunder clap for every flash of lighting.

[Cyclone]

I fixed the layering issues throughout the sequence and removed the flashes in the intro text shot. Perhaps the sequence needs one more clap of thunder. I can do that anytime. If you like what I have so far you may give me a banana. They are so tasty.



What's next is the scared Diddy in the cave.

Everything looks great thus far. The only change i would make, and this is not a necessary addition, is to have the Gnawty have DKC64 sound effects rather than the noise made by Squeals. It sounds better in my opinion.

Would you be able to show me what it sounds like? All I could find was a compilation of sounds on you tube. However I don't even know what it sounds. Been so long since I played DK64. Thanks.

[spaceman2028]

There's a few Gnawties near the entrance to the first world in DK64. Maybe you can use those as a test sample?

[Cyclone]

good suggestion but i don't have the knowledge to rip the sound. + my N64 is in boxes.

[CountryFan]

Wouldn't you do it in Project64?

[sonosublime]

That is looking awesome, man. The only suggestion I have is when, "It was a dark and stormy night..." is up, have no sound. Then, thunder booms and lightning flashes across the screen when you cut to the rainy scene.

[vege]

Hey Cyclone, that sequence looks fantastic and natural: cool Audio and video, good objects, animation, etc I would love see a fusion between your work and the work done by Igor viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2074 Yes, i know, they are different projects, but both rescue the essence of Donkey Kong (snes) and they have a nice concept of this game.

[Cyclone]

I'm a month and a half behind. Sorry guys. Lost motivation there for a bit. sigh.

Here is a work in progress of diddy pacing back and forth talking to himself. Shortly after the vid ends diddy will again jump to face the entrance in fear caused by the lightning to follow sonosublime's script




Any ideas on making this shot less boring an monotonous?

Also I need a sound of diddy crying out in fear.


Thanks.

[Qyzbud]

Copy/pasted from chat — for reference:

Diddy's pacing scene definitely needs a variety of camera angles, more varied animations, etc. I'm not sure about having extended dialogue in one basic scene like that, either... but you know my stance on the dialogue side of things.

As for camera angles; some close-ups would help, since it's all about Diddy's thoughts/feelings... and for animation/pose ideas; having him put his hands up and to the side in exasperation (kind of like a shrug), and playing nervously with his hat, etc., could be appropriate.

[Cyclone]

Sonosublime here are my thoughts on this scene. Have any suggestions? You may need to look at the script to and compare it to my notes.

Spoiler!

First text block(where it says miserable) Diddy shakes his head
and furiously throws down his arms and stomps his foot

Second text block(Where it says Diddy (cont'd)) He Shrugs and nervously plays with his hat. How else should his
body language be?
Camera angle could be a semi close up that switches to the original wide shot. In
the middle of his shrug.

Third text block. Camera is a full body showing Diddy. Diddy shakes his head again and throws his arms into the air.
Or is shaking his head again too repetitive?

Final Text block. Lightning flashes and diddy cries out in fear once again
He jumps around to face the cave entrance, taking up a comical fighting stance.
Camera is Showing diddy on the far left of the screen and the cave on the right.

[sonosublime]

Good to see you back!

Qyzbud is right about the camera angles - there definitely has to be more of a variety of close-up shots, showing Diddy's face, and medium shots, showing his actions. Perhaps there could be occasional far-out shots, emphasizing the darkness of the cave, and Diddy's isolation. And some more idle animations from Diddy are a must. Also, for a shot that feels too long, employ that 'cheat technique' I told you about: have the camera slowly pan to the side (but not by much). The scene itself does not really change, but adding this slight camera movement will make it much more dynamic.

As for your thoughts, Cyclone, they are pretty good. Also, don't have Diddy start pacing until the second text block (where it says "DIDDY (CONT'D): I mean, sure, if it helps me to become a better person..."). And then he stops pacing at the third text block ("DIDDY (CONT'D) (SARCASTIC)). He should look contemplative, and then sarcastic at this point, because he realises how crazy he is

[Cyclone]

First Day of truely working on the project after my 2month hiatus.

Here is a much different version. Added some more shots to break up the scene. The way the model turned out I can only render the previews with bones(rig) showing. Also I'm avoiding extreme close ups of Diddy's head and shoulders because the model has a lot of hair/geometry flaws. And i'm trying to use his body language to show emotion as I don't have good facial morphs, just his angry eye brows which look a little out of place.
Watch it then read the spoiler. If you don't get Diddy's feelings from watching it then I didn't do my job correctly.

Spoiler!

He is supposed to look mad at the beginning(throwing his arms into the air). In the middle he shrugs his shoulders in response to ("If it makes me a better person"). Next his hand/arm positions are supposed to convey that he isn't crazy. Finally he puts his hand to his face(correcting his thoughts that it was just the storm) after he gets scared facing the cave entrance in response to the thunder.

Feedback appreciated as always. Qyzbud/sonosublime and others.
Thanks!

[Qyzbud]

This looks like a significant improvement in body language and camera work — well done on both counts.

I think Diddy's emotions were conveyed fairly well, but facial morphs (or at least some changes to his eyes, mouth etc.) would help a lot; you could always have a separate facial model for close-ups, if sculpting the main model is too awkward/difficult for whatever reason.

[vege]

Hi, Cyclone, i hope that you understand my bad english:

0:04 - 0.12: I feel that translation of Diddy looks a bit repetitive (cyclic), I suggest to accelerate his walking speed during that time span and to increase his range of translation (picture 1), maybe Diddy could touch the "banana Hoard" sign (using his hand).

It would be good that you add another "neck rig" (second picture) and to use the tail rig to improve dynamics in these body parts, the tail and head look very static.

0:19 fantastic detail when he raises his hat.

0:28 "while everyone else is at home and warm and easy in bed": Diddy could simulate shooting an invisible ball with his right leg, so he would show his displeasure.

0:30 -> It looks great for me.

[Cyclone]

Thanks. i know he should move more, hmm.

Here is a rendered version. any pointers/suggestions would be great,

you cant really tell that he is shrugging his shoulders now.

[CountryFan]

Pretty good, but his general posture needs work - Diddy doesn't walk upright like that except when using his Peanut Popguns or carrying a barrel.

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the suggestion. In the official Rareware renders Diddy stands up straight, and the in game animations too. Also wouldn't it be hard to show body language?

Over the next few days I will be working on improving the smoothness of the animations.

Here is a newer version. Added draft sounds. The monkey cry might be out of place/distracting. What do you guys think. I improved some of the animations and added a facial morph to one of the shots. Still need to make it consistant to the rest of the shots.

In an attempt to make things more atmospheric I added some water droplets dripping from the stalactites. If it's too distracting I can remove them. It was easy to do.



One question I have is the body language. Does it fit with the key points in the dialog?
Thanks

[sonosublime]

I'm liking the improvements.

Some nitpicky thoughts:

1. Only have dialogue in the subtitles. Don't have actions (i.e. *shrugs*)

2. Diddy is pacing a bit too much.

3. Try not to have Diddy's mouth open all the time. It makes him look kinda goofy.

4. When Diddy says, "It's okay, it's just the storm... Just the - " A split second later, there should be thunder and lightning again, showing all the Kremling shadows all over the cave.

As I said, nitpicky thoughts. I wouldn't get too bogged down on the small details until you have the whole scene done.

Happy New Year!

[Cyclone]

Thanks sonosublime. A Happy New Year to you and others.

Here is the animation project as a whole.
I improved the first half of the Diddy Scene.

The first few shots and last shots are near final versions. Sound is not finished and some shots are re-compressed. Just showing you guys the project as a whole now. All the shots are in. Composition and lighting still need improving.



If you have any suggestions let me know.

To just see the improved Diddy scene
use this link.

http://youtu.be/oll208wN-Zs?t=25s

Thanks.

[Cyclone]

Oops Qyzbud and others. I forgot to insert an important part of the animation and the best looking part to. Beginners brain.

Removed video. The correct version will be up in about an hour...

[Qyzbud]

I managed to see the video just before you removed it, and very much enjoyed it. Still plenty of rough edges (draft-rendered models, scene planning elements, etc.), but it was an impressive reminder of the body of work you've produced so far.

I look forward to the impending update!

[Cyclone]

Thanks Qyzbud.

here is the proper version.

[sonosublime]

Wow, it puts into perspective how much you've accomplished. Things just need to be tidied up, and have sounds and music added, and it will be great.

The only thing I suggest is moving the title sequence to between the Kremling cave attack and the morning scene.

[Cyclone]

Added music.

What do you think sonosublime?

[sonosublime]

The music really adds to it, and I quite like some of the choices.

Here are my suggestions:

1. When Krusha lunges at the camera, the script says to cut to black for a few seconds, and then fade in to the title.

2. Have thunder claps when the lightning flashes, showing the Kremling shadows on the cave walls.

3. Decrease the time between when Diddy says, "It's just the storm - " to when the Kremling shadows flash on the cave walls.

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the suggestions. I encorporated them into this latest update. I added more sound effects and I think It flows more smoothly now.




Whay do you guys think of the project? Is it good, bad or just ok. It need work still I know but how is it comming along?

Thanks for your continued feedback.

[Cyclone]

A revised shot of the glowing eyes that appear when Diddy is in the cave. I added pupils, made them blink and made the stalactites more visible.

[sonosublime]

I think the project is really starting to come along. Like you said, it needs touching up, but it's definitely getting there.

As for the revised glowing eyes, I like the blinking. However, I would suggest taking out the pupils. It makes the eyes look more mysterious that way.

[Cyclone]

Just playing around with the cave background. The clouds and foliage will be animated in the future.
I think the revision makes the scene more moody and helps the composition and adds depth to the shot. Before it was just a flat image plane, now it's 3d.



Sonosublime and others what is your take on this comment.

Note Constructive criticism I think the sets look really nice but need some shadows to make it look authentic and look nice as an animation while the models look... odd to say the least mainly its how the limbs look, they look like a bad game graphics and the movements look clunky and awkward and cranky's beard changed at one from realistic to chain armor material at one point and it takes a long time to make this and please take more time to rework the models so that the arms look clunky but all in all look identical to the main characters and I hope this helps you get better as an animator

[Qyzbud]

I like the concept of these shots showing the jungle beyond the cave.

Is the cave supposed to have some sort of internal light source? If not, it might be important to make the cave more gloomy, so that the Kremlings can be hidden inside, and the dim glow of the stormy jungle sky can be seen to be the source of the light.

Not sure if I'm making sense here, but hopefully a darker cave will improve the shot.

[sonosublime]

Hmm, I think I preferred the previous image in the cave mouth. The jungle looked thicker.

[Cyclone]

Here is a few 1920x1080 shots with Diddy in the cave with added for(still needs more dense fur). I changed the cave bg with more trees which are now animated. There are glitches with Diddy's eyes in the pacing shots which will hopefully be fixed in the next render phase.

What do you guys think?
I like the new cave background better then the first one I had because it ads more depth to the scene and in my opinion makes for a better composition.

Thanks for the input.

[sonosublime]

Looking really good. The major things I can suggest is smoothing out the animations. And while the new cave background looks good, personally I just liked the old one better. It looked like you were really in the thick of the jungle, at the bottom of all the undergrowth. But hey, that's my opinion.

[Cyclone]

while the new cave background looks good, personally I just liked the old one better. It looked like you were really in the thick of the jungle, at the bottom of all the undergrowth. But hey, that's my opinion.

good point I may have to change it

Here is shot 10. Playing around with the lighting.

Shot10 with ambient occlusion pass and some color adjustments.
The is a halo on his right hand. forgot to did an object...

[Qyzbud]

Diddy's fur looks a bit unappealing to me, now — washed out colour, lack of definition, etc.

The shadows/shading on Diddy are a bit harsh.

[Cyclone]

Thanks Qyzbud for your input as always. I increased the sample rate and reduced the smoothing.

[Qyzbud]

Looks like an improvement to me.

Diddy's fur still looks a bit pale/light, though; a darker brown (perhaps quite like the darkest parts of his fur) would suit him a lot better.

The cave environment's lighting looks quite nice with the ambient occlusion, I must say — as does the banana pile! The lighting will have to be considerably darker to conceal the lurking Kremlings, and to give the feeling of it being a stormy night, but this looks good at any rate.

[Cyclone]

I redid the lighting again. I think this is better. The rendering times are also a lot more reasonable.

[Cyclone]

Shots 10-12 with improved lighting.

Shot9(fcombined)(Jan22nd2015).png (2.15 MiB) Viewed 201440 times

[sonosublime]

Looking good. I would suggest that, for the part where the lightning flashes the Kremling shadows on the wall, and Diddy turns to the left to see it again, I would make it faster.

As for the revised glowing eyes, I like the blinking. However, I would suggest taking out the pupils. It makes the eyes look more mysterious that way.

[Cyclone]

Looking good. I would suggest that, for the part where the lightning flashes the Kremling shadows on the wall, and Diddy turns to the left to see it again, I would make it faster.

Thanks sonosublime. Good pointer I was thinking it was a bit slow in that part. It's an easy fix.

Here is the waking up shot with Ambient occlusion for contact shadows. Its most noticeable on the vase,table cloth and curtains. It's a decent imprevement to add more realism. But its easy to miss if your not looking for it.

[Cyclone]

Added a glowing sun to the above shot.

[Cyclone]

Added shot with cranky tapping his foot. Need to up the res on the shadows as they are a bit grainy. That is if my computer has enough memory to do so.

[Tonberry2000]

Diddy's muzzle is way too stubby. I would extend it a little more.

[Cyclone]

What exactly do you mean? Can you put together a pic?

[spaceman2028]

You also need to make the sweat marks on diddy's head (when he sees the shadows of the kremlings flash from the lightning) not become visible until he looks behind the viewpoint of the scene.

[vege]

@Cyclone: Your work is professional, i like it so much.

Some subjective preferences:

I feel his skin looks very clear ("pale"), i would like a slightly darker/yellow skin for the Kong, i hope you understand me.
The hose looks very tidy, i suggest give it an untidy / less opaque /brighter appareance, this enhances the naturalness of the scene.
The movements look nice for me.

I enjoy your videos !

[spaceman2028]

I forgot to mention this, but your latest scene needs sound.

[ItsameDonkeyKong]

Hey, Im a big fan, and I wanted to say that I think you should use DKCTF or DKCR models in your video. The models now seem a little... off. No offense, but when I see them, they seem to fall a flat. No offence, But it feels like you shhould use modern models. Thanks for reading!