DKC Atlas Forum

[Tiptup Jr.]

Found this on Wikipedia:



These are, for the most part, the facts. Although we'd have to change Cranky to the original Donkey Kong, and Candy and DK aren't married and they don't have a son.

[Jomingo]

Nope, just no.
Fact: Cranky=Donkey Kong SR
So DK is either 1)Donkey Kong JR., or 2)The son of Donkey Kong JR., making him the 3rd.
It is NOT a possibility for Donkey Kong JR. to be the son of DKC Donkey Kong, because that would make Cranky the original Donkey Kong's dad. The only way that would work would be if that Donkey Kong JR. was listed as the 3rd, not JR.
Fact: DKC Donkey Kong doesn't have a son.
NotFact: Diddy is DK's nephew. This is NOT proven.
And Funky is not listed on there at all. For shame.

[cfh]

And Kiddy Kong is known to be Dixie's cousin. Of course, this is Wikipedia. :p

[Tiptup Jr.]

Okay, I shouldn't have posted that particular tree. It doesn't show the original DK is Cranky. These are the facts:

FACT: Cranky is the original Donkey Kong.
FACT: Wrinkly is his wife.
FACT: The current DK is either their son or grandson.
FACT: Diddy is DK's nephew. Confirmed by Nintendo and, I think, Rare.
FACT: Dixie is Tiny's sister.
FACT: Kiddy is Chunky's brother by adoption.
FACT: Dixie and Tiny are Chunky and Kiddy's cousins.
FACT: DK is Candy's boyfriend.
FACT: Diddy is Dixie's boyfriend.

Now, the rest is speculation on my part. I believe Funky to be Chunky and Kiddy's father. He did, afterall, house Kiddy before the events of DKC3, so why not? And I also think that Swanky is DK's brother, which could possibly make him Diddy's father. Again, this is all stuff that may or may not be true.

So, if we adhere only to the facts, the Kong family tree would look like this:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Tiptup_Jr/kongs.png

But, if my guesswork is correct, the tree would look like this:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Tiptup_Jr/kongs2.png

I made 'em both myself.

[Jomingo]

NO, NO, NO. It has NEVER been confirmed that Diddy is DK's nephew! And there is absolutely NO evidence that Kiddy was adopted. That was a theory form the DKU that had absolutely no evidence, and was based solely on there differing physical appearances.

Things we know:
Cranky and Wrinkly are married.
DK is probably there son, but maybe there grandson. I don't know, but I think it was confirmed to be their son.
Dixie and Tiny are sisters.
Kiddy and Chunky are brother's.
Kiddy/Chunky are cousin's with Dixie/Tiny.


Here is a list of all the kongs:
Cranky
Wrinkly
Karate
DK
Funky
Candy
Swanky
Bumpkin
City Kong
Dread
Sumo
Ninja
Manky
Diddy
Dixie
Kiddy
Chunky
Tiny
Lanky

Now, here are my theories. It is just made up, so don't take it seriously:
There are 4 different family trees:
1) DK's Tree:
Cranky's brother is Karate Kong, and Dread, Sumo, and Ninja are his sons.
Funky is DK's younger brother. This explains why he is so lazy/rebellious, because DK is the first born and he inherits the island, so Funky is ignored, causing him to lash out.
Funky could be Diddy's father. This would make him DK's nephew. If you compare Diddy with sunglasses and a boombox to Funky in the original Funky Flights, you'll see the similarities.
Wrinkly also has an unnamed sister, who is dead. Her son's are Swanky and City kong.
2) Candy's Family Tree:
Candy has 3 siblings: Bumpkin, Kiddy/Chunky's parent, and Dixie/Tiny's parent.
3) Lanky's Tree:
Lanky and Manky are brother's. That's it.


I didn't include Minkey, Hurley, the Gibbons, or Ninjapes in this. They don't matter much anyway.

[Tiptup Jr.]

No offense Jomingo, but there is evidence that Diddy is DK's nephew. I'm staring at the Donkey Kong 64 official player's guide that says Diddy is DK's nephew. It's not a theory the DKU developed, it's true.

[Sean]

Which was written by the people who were behind Nintendo Power at the time, not Rare or anyone else who'd made the games. The nephew concept first showed up in Donkey Kong's bio in the original Super Smash Bros., and we all know that series loves its factual errors. The only other time it's referred to anywhere near a DK game is in the manual of Donkey Kong 64, where Diddy's profile states he's DK's "little nephew wannabe". You could argue to take that statement literally, that he's a wannabe nephew, but I'm not gonna bother since I've never liked that argument.

There's also the bigger, more immediate problem: Donkey Kong is a gorilla. Diddy Kong is a monkey. A relation is kind of off, barring adoption, and even then. This also works on the assumption that DK has a brother, who we've never seen (and we know Diddy has a dad and a mom, because they appear in the manual story for Diddy Kong Racing 64).

[Kowbrainz]

Cranky is Donkey Kong's grandfather, so there is indeed another line of ancestory that we aren't seeing in between Donkey and Cranky. There you go, yet another video game hero without parents. (this is from the DKC manual)


Edit: Damnit... ignore the above statement... manual says in the story that Cranky is DK's granddad, but later his character bio says he's DK's 'pappy', indicating he's DK's father... >_<

As for Diddy... I was almost certain that Rare said he was DK's nephew, but after looking into the matter it says nothing about it anywhere in any of the original games or their manuals... it's probably a concept Nintendo introduced, however I'll have to look into it a little further first.

[Tiptup Jr.]

I don't want to start a huge fight or anything, but Nintendo still had control of the series when Rare was making games. Heck, if Diddy was supposed to be DK Jr. in the first place, then the whole "Cranky is the original Donkey Kong" idea was probably started by Nintendo, not Rare.

Now, about the different species thing. I know Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, but right here DK is listed as a mountain gorilla, Diddy a monkey, Lanky an orangutan, and Tiny is a chimp. That much we know. But what's stopping them from saying Chunky is a mandrill? How do we even know if any of our assumptions are correct? Personally, I don't think Rare or Nintendo thought about the species of their characters before they made their games, so of course, the Kong family tree is gonna be one huge mess.

It all boils down to one question: Can gorillas, monkeys, chimpanzees, mandrills, baboons, and orangutans successfully mate? I sure as heck don't know, but we might have some smart people here who do.

[Kowbrainz]

It all boils down to one answer: it's just a game.

Nothing has to make perfect sense within the game - I doubt Rare were taking time to think about how chimpanzees mated with gorillas when they designed the game. A monkey's a monkey in this case, let's leave it at that.

[Sean]

It all boils down to one question: Can gorillas, monkeys, chimpanzees, mandrills, baboons, and orangutans successfully mate? I sure as heck don't know, but we might have some smart people here who do.

No. It's this thing called interspecies breeding, and in real life it doesn't happen. The parts don't fit, as it were.

[Tiptup Jr.]

True, but like Kowbrainz said, it's a video game. In real life monkeys don't talk.

Qyzbud: If you do add a Kong family lineage section to the site, feel free to use either one of my trees, as seen a few posts above.

[Jomingo]

I believe he's already stated in another thread that he doesn't want a family tree, and that instead he'll just state any know lineages in each character's bio.

As for interspecies breeding, there is scientific evidence that primates interbred for thousands of years before they evolved into there present form. That's where the whole story of the "missing link" came from, it's an ape that is inbetween Human and gorilla on the evolutionary scale, that was created by this process of generations of interspecies breeding.

Besides, I strongly believe that within DK's world interspecies breeding is possible. It's essentially a cartoon, isn't it? Well, if that's true, I don't see why the different species can't be treated as different races, ie. gorillas and monkeys can be compared to white and black people. They don't have to be taken %100 realistic. If we consider the series this way, it will make the entire continuity much easier to figure out.

[Qyzbud]

I believe he's already stated in another thread that he doesn't want a family tree, and that instead he'll just state any know lineages in each character's bio.

Thanks for that, Tiptup Jr, but what Jomingo said is quite right.

I think there are too many unknowns for me to justify displaying a family tree. This thread's conversation is intriguing and full of merit though, I like to hear peoples' ideas on the matter. Jomingo, your ideas in particular always seem to catch my attention.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Phew... I was going to compare gorillas and monkeys to white people and black people, but I was afraid of getting yelled at. You never know who's gonna read your posts...

Anywho, I have a question. Where does Rare state that our current DK is DK Jr? I know where they say Cranky is the original DK, but I never caught the DK Jr. reference. Maybe DK really is Cranky's grandson? This would allow him and Wrinkly to be the true "grandparents" of the Kong family, because making them DK's parents causes some problems.

The DKU's already shot this idea down, but in DKC3 Blizzard Bear says that DK is Dixie and Kiddy's cousin. If we take this literally and assume that Diddy is DK's nephew, than Diddy is going out with his aunt. I also think that Funky is Kiddy's dad, which would make him DK's uncle and things get all kindsa messed up. Hey, you can have an uncle who's the same age as you are, right?

Just a thought.

[Jomingo]

First off, thank you for your kind words Qyzbud.
Now, as for Tiptup Jr's questions,
1) I don't see why not compare black people and white people in such a way. It's amazing that our society is so careful about political correctness that you would be nervous to state something so unimportant as this. You should never be worried to speek you opinion.
2) Rare never specifically states that DK is DK JR, nor does nintendo or any other source, from what I can remember. It is entirely possible that he is the son of DKJr. There have been several references to him being the son of Cranky and also the Grandson of him, so we don't know for sure. Though, he also mentions Diddy is his grandson, so he could just consider himself everyones grandfather(not literally, just because he's the oldest). He calls himself Dk's Pappy in DKC, and he says DK is his son in DK64. It's really up for grabs at this point, though I believe it just makes more sence to make him DK's father.
3) As for the Blizzard Bear issue, DK is not Dixie Kong's cousin. I think that DK had never met the brother's bear before, or only briefly met them, so they Blizzard just assumed they were cousins of some sort. Though, it would be possible, but that would definately make Diddy not related to DK. When you say cousin, you don't always mean literally cousins. I have plenty of "cousins" that aren't technically my cousins. Whether they are second cousins, third cousins, or some relation I'm not even sure about, I still just refer to them as cousins. So it would be possible that they are somehow related, and are just reffered to as cousins in this case, but it's unlikely.

And about Uncle/Nephew ages, I am an uncle of four, and my nephew is 12. He's only two years younger than me. My brother is 11, so he's younger than my nephew. And my dad's uncle is only two years older than him. So yeah, it's entirely possible.

[Kiddy14]

...but in DKC3 Blizzard Bear says that DK is Dixie and Kiddy's cousin...

Maybe he thought he was their cousin, Diddy and Donkey were on a fishing trip in the northern Kremispheres, and there's a little river in K3, maybe they met him barely, you know K3 is near Kaos Kore, K. Rool could have apenapped them near there...

Or you can say it's just a game:
1.- Wrinkly, and Swanky can't be in all the world maps at once.
2.- When Dixie/Kiddy go with a Brother's Bear the first time, they just call them by their names even if they haven't met never.
2.- Usually primates except for humans don't wear clothes...
3.- Usually female chimps don't have really large pony tails.
4.- Usually primates don't play N64...
5.- Usually... blah blah blah

It's just a videogame, not all the stuff has to make sence...

[Qyzbud]

That's very true, but it's a lot of fun trying to make sense out of it all.

Speaking of which... somehow I got the idea that Wrinkly's save cave was located somewhere central, but had lots of access tunnels (in the different worlds). I suppose that's a topic for another thread, though.

[Jomingo]

That actually makes alot of sense though.

[CM August]

Speaking of which... somehow I got the idea that Wrinkly's save cave was located somewhere central, but had lots of access tunnels (in the different worlds). I suppose that's a topic for another thread, though.

In fact, this is the exact same explanation used in the extended story of DKC3. You can view it on Rare's old (defunct) official website here.

This is the relevant passage:

The young visitor looked around. Apart from the stone walls, the redecorated cave was almost identical to Wrinkly's hut back in the jungle, complete with the same cosy old furniture.
"It's a nice cave," she said uncertainly.
"Yes, isn't it lovely?" Wrinkly beamed as she poured the tea. "Very useful too - there are tunnels that come in from miles around, so wherever you're off to, you've got no excuse for not popping in every now and then. Where are you off to, anyway?"
Dixie suddenly remembered why she was there. "DK and Diddy," she said quickly. "Have you seen them?"

[Stone]

Nice link, this old Rare web-site.
It even has the old Dinosaur Planet logo, I've saved it immediately

[Qyzbud]

Oh cool, I was remembering something that has some solid, Rare-affirmed factuality about it.

That's incredible. I haven't seen Rarewhere in so many years. It was my favourite site! Thanks for the link. Maybe we can track down some long-lost facts and help connect some of the missing branches in the Kong family tree.

[CM August]

It's worth noting that numerous "save states" of the Rarewhere site were made on archive.org. If you can't access a link, through ANY roundabout means (accessing the same link from a different page can sometimes work), you could try one of the numerous other "states" logged here.

[Tiptup Jr.]

I thought everyone knew about the tunnels going from Wrinkly's Save Cave. I saved all the official stories for Donkey Kong games on a Word document years ago, for my reading pleasure.

EDIT: Check it out, additional confirmation that Cranky is the original DK!

Yes, he can be clumsy and stubborn, but the only person he's ever really held a grudge against is old adversary K. Rool, as much his arch-enemy as Mario was Cranky's (so he keeps telling them).

Cool.

[Qyzbud]

Hahaha, yes of course. That has never been in doubt, though. Has it?

[Tiptup Jr.]

No. Just something for the Mario vs. Donkey Kong fans who don't know a thing about continuity.

[Jomingo]

Yeah, I thought they've been saying that since day one. They say it in DKC, and in the manual too. The debate is whether DK is his son or grandson.

[Tiptup Jr.]

As many of you already know, I support the theory of Cranky being DK's grandfather, effectively making Donkey Kong Jr. the father of our current DK, Donkey Kong III.

[Kowbrainz]

Someone really ought to send this into Rare's scribes soon, methinks...
Perhaps we should put together a couple of questions to ask them.

[CM August]

Leigh Loveday, editor of Scribes, has already expressed his opinion that Cranky is DK's father. I don't know if it could get more specific than that.

[Kowbrainz]

Do you have a link to which scribes he states it in, or was it an older edition not on the site anymore? :/

Just checkin.



Edit: Nevermind, this site seems to have already taken care of everything; but you are quite right, it does seem that DK is infact Cranky's son.

Can we all agree on this now? Or is there too much evidence on either side for anything to be concluded?


Oh, and the site also has a small compilation on Diddy Kong and his relation to Donkey.

[Tiptup Jr.]

My latest views of the Kong family tree can be found here. Basically, it says DK is Cranky's grandson and Dixie, Tiny, Kiddy, and Chunky's grandfather is DK's uncle. This way, everything makes sense and nobody argues... except for the Cranky/DK relationship debate, but hey.

I've also come to the conclusion that Diddy is not biologically related to the rest of the Kongs. Any way you slice it, if he really was DK's nephew, it just wouldn't make sense. That is all!

[Qyzbud]

I like your new diagram, Tiptup. I've actually started to doubt my current stance regarding DK's position as Cranky's son/grandson. I originally took Sir Loveday's word to be the definitive answer to the matter, especially since I thought the game's story was built on a stronger concept if DK was trying to show his father that he too could be a video game hero. Showing your grandpa just doesn't seem quite as fitting, in my opinion.

After examining the DKC in-game text (SNES version), it appears that a fair handful of Cranky's quotes are aimed squarely at the concept that he is indeed DK's grandpa (four of them even explicitly state this to be the case). However, these quotes don't seem to actually occur during gameplay; I've only seen them as part of the game data itself, never whilst playing.

Spoiler!

'Removed' quotes:

"It's about time you visited your frail, old Grandpa!" (since when does Cranky admit to being frail?)

"So, you've finally come to get some game play advice from your old Grandpa!"

Those are two of the quotes which are definite about the nature of their relationship.

"Donkey, you young whippersnapper! Long time no see!"

This one is more implicit... who calls their son a 'young whippersnapper', though? That's a very grandfatherly phrase. This one also implies that they don't see each other all that often, which is a possible reference to them being grandson/grandfather.

Could it be that these quotes were disabled from the game due to factual inaccuracy, but were never deleted from the game's code? Or were they just amongst the many (often quite useful) quotes which aren't seen in-game, for no obvious reason?


Two quotes that *are* seen in game, also add a little to the scenario:

"Last time I saw you, you were wearing diapers!"

"Make sure to shut the gate on your way out. I didn't raise you in a barn!"

These imply that Cranky did indeed 'raise' DK, but that he hasn't had much to do with him in quite some time.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. What do you guys think?

[Jomingo]

Well, technically he says that to both DK and Diddy. They obviously aren't of the same generation, so he isn't both of their grandfathers. I think it just makes more sense that he's just referring to himself as the elderly character.

[Qyzbud]

A good point.

Especially since Funky talks to DK and Diddy differently (but strangely, Candy doesn't...), so we know it can happen in-game. Cranky even says things specifically to DK when only Diddy's there... He must be rather shortsighted. I wouldn't say DK and Diddy are of obviously different generations though, even if Diddy's a bit younger. I think you are right, but I wouldn't say it's definite.

[Tiptup Jr.]

These two:

Spoiler!

"Last time I saw you, you were wearing diapers!"

"Make sure to shut the gate on your way out. I didn't raise you in a barn!"

are especially confusing. The first one implies that, if Cranky is DK's dad, he hasn't seen him since he was a baby. We know this isn't true, because Donkey Kong Jr. must've been older than a baby in his debut game, and he certainly wasn't wearing a diaper.

I've developed an interesting theory on the second one. If Cranky is DK's grandfather, what if DK's actual father is dead? Think about it... we haven't seen Donkey Kong Jr. since the NES days, have we? (And no, Mario Tennis and Game & Watch Gallery don't count.) Maybe Donkey Kong Jr. is DK's father, but he died when DK was a baby and Cranky had to raise his grandson like a son, so he refers to himself as DK's grandpa and his dad. This would explain many things, no?

EDIT: Top of the Page Dance! Or do we do something different around here?

[Simion32]

Well, that would seem to make the most sense. I don't like to argue over continuity, but your theory would explain a lot...

EDIT: Top of the Page Dance! Or do we do something different around here?

I recall Qyz saying there should be no top-of-page dances or anything similar.
It was in Anything Goes where he said that, I think.

[Qyzbud]

That's a very interesting theory. Maybe part of the reason for Cranky's general bitterness toward DK is that he sees DK as a 'let down' compared to DK Jr... Perhaps Cranky wishes that DK was more of a hero, like his deceased (or missing) father was. I mean, if DK is a replacement son (in theory), Cranky would miss his real son, and only see DK's flaws, leaving him one unhappy (grand)pappy.

Oh by the way, you're banned.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Oh... that scared me for a second. I GOTS TA MOVES MA FEET!

And just a small note about Mario Tennis: when you win a tournament with Donkey Kong JR., he grabs the trophy and Donkey Kong shows up and gives him a fatherly hug. Now, obviously, these games shouldn't be considered canon, but I just thought I should mention that... Nintendo's thoughts seem to have changed since then regarding the Donkey Kong controversy.

[Qyzbud]

A fatherly hug? Wow, that's lovely. Just the thought of such a touching display has moved me to lift your ban.

Stepping back a little... Cranky's comments are hard to guage due to his joking, cynical and... how can I say it tactfully? ...DEMENTED, SENILE OLD-MAN traits. They are entertaining, for sure, but I can't help thinking it's all (or mostly) a load of bollocks.

[Rare Lover]

I believe it was said in Scribes that Cranky is actually DK's father however at the time of development of DKC Rare didn't know how much room they had for shaping the series so they referred to him as his grandfather. However after DKC was released and found to be very popular they went to the idea of DK being Cranky's son which you can see in DK64. He also said something about the text in DKC referring to DK as his "grand" son and whenever you here him say grandson to plug your ears and close your eyes and yell "LALALALALALALA" or something to that degree.

[Tiptup Jr.]

We seem to be forgetting that Rare originally intended their Donkey Kong to be the original, and Diddy to be Donkey Kong Jr. Nintendo made them change it, but later retconned their own decision. And in Brawl they retconned their own retcon.

...

[The Kirby]

It's possible that DK and Cranky aren't biologically related, but rather Cranky adopted DK, who Cranky raised to be a sort of successor to him, and that his mixed relationship of being DK's father/grandfather is just referring to Cranky's paternal role and advanced age.

Also, I noticed that Wrinkly's relationship with DK is darn near nonexistent, which is surprising under the assumption of her being DK's mother. Whenever she refers to him, it's always in a fairly indifferent context; never any personal details or genuine worry, considering that he went missing two times in the series, and in each case, Wrinkly was in the games where it happened (and in DKC2's case, she specifically knew that DK had been kidnapped.) Maybe Cranky married Wrinkly after DK was fully grown, and she and DK never really got a chance to get to know each other personally.

[Qyzbud]

Some good points, RL. It's entirely plausible that Rare would have been avoiding 'shaping the series' early on (at DKC's release), as the series wasn't started by them, and apparently Nintendo had already shot down some of their ideas (good reminder, Tiptup)... Then later wanting to have Cranky be known as our DK's father. That does make sense to me.

Kirby, your points re: Wrinkly are interesting, too. Of course, she seems like a daft ol' bat at the best of times... even Cranky's senility seems to pale in comparison. Hopefully as I create in-game text sections for DKC2 and DKC3 here, we'll have a better view of all of what the Kongs say to (and think of) each other.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Actually, I don't recall Wrinkly ever even mentioning Donkey Kong. She seems like a grandmotherly character...

Maybe Wrinkly has a darker side.

[The Kirby]

Actually, I think the only time she ever refers to DK is in the DKC3 instruction manual, and she doesn't seem all that concerned.

I think she also talks about DK in the DKC2 intro in the GBA version, but I doubt anyone takes that port as canon.

[Tiptup Jr.]

No, I don't think the DKC2 port should be considered canon. Wrinkly is already on DK Island before she goes to Crocodile Isle, but we know that she lived on the island during the events of Donkey Kong Country. Cranky supports this by mentioning a visit from his far-off wife, I believe.

Eh, anyone who lived with Cranky would want to get away for awhile.

[Qyzbud]

True, in DKC she's mentioned in passing by Cranky, but not really by name...

"Sure beats a visit from Mrs. Kong! How can I help you?"

[Goe]

i haven't seen that topic until now...interesting!

I didn't know Wrinkly is Cranky's wife...poor Wrinkly!

Here is a list of all the kongs:
Cranky
Wrinkly
Karate
DK
Funky
Candy
Swanky
Bumpkin
City Kong
Dread
Sumo
Ninja
Manky
Diddy
Dixie
Kiddy
Chunky
Tiny
Lanky

Now, here are my theories. It is just made up, so don't take it seriously:
There are 4 different family trees:
1) DK's Tree:
Cranky's brother is Karate Kong, and Dread, Sumo, and Ninja are his sons.
Funky is DK's younger brother. This explains why he is so lazy/rebellious, because DK is the first born and he inherits the island, so Funky is ignored, causing him to lash out.
Funky could be Diddy's father. This would make him DK's nephew. If you compare Diddy with sunglasses and a boombox to Funky in the original Funky Flights, you'll see the similarities.
Wrinkly also has an unnamed sister, who is dead. Her son's are Swanky and City kong.
2) Candy's Family Tree:
Candy has 3 siblings: Bumpkin, Kiddy/Chunky's parent, and Dixie/Tiny's parent.
3) Lanky's Tree:
Lanky and Manky are brother's. That's it.

Wow...there are a great list of kongs...i only know:

Donkey
Diddy
Cranky
Candy
Funky
Dixie
Wrinkly
Swanky
Kiddy
Tiny
Lanky
Chunky

That is because i've only played DKC and DKL trilogy and DK64....i guess the other are from the game cube game, aren't they?

[Tiptup Jr.]

I'm not sure Bumpkin and City Kong are canon, and the JB Kongs aren't exactly family friends... But I'm still making diagrams of those trees.